FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Hammer278]

My 2 cents, knowing LewEng's style of posting in this forum I am certain his intentions were well and good....but lets face it, this is a sensitive topic (like the racism thing) and 1 poster made a joke which went sour I mean come on, its hard to resolve these things face to face, in text form the risk only gets higher. I don't think its fair to blame the OP for his attempt though.

[geetface9]

Not surprising given the countries you both are from, PC mad both of them!

i am definitely laughing about that LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

It's funny when it's not being directed at you or at a loved one. I hope neither of you ever have a gay teenage son that commits suicide.

Indeed. Sorry if that's happened to you. meant no offense, but I still laughed my off!! I've got gay friends who'd have cracked up about it too! And some who wouldn't. As has been mentioned, it's hard to know which subject on which to draw the line. I draw the line on none cuz I'm just bat sh!t crazy!! I'd love my gay son as much as a straight son, for the record!!

I hope my candid response here does not intensify the negative emotions in the last 2 pages of this. Just sayin' I mean no harm and at the same time agreeing with the fact that it's hard to know where to draw the line like bud said.

[andrew]

Hmm. I can't help but feel all these accusations of ridiculousness and pointlessness, in relation to the thread topic, are an attack on me and my judgement in posting it. In which case I would like to offer an explanation, seeing as it appears to be desired by the restless participants here.

I simply came across an article on the internet and thought it might be of interest. This is because there are sadly still issues surrounding homophobia and sport, and I initially thought that this could be an interesting debate, unlike one which we have seen prior. On this forum that is.

I miscalculated badly. I overestimated the tolerance and maturity of some members here. It appears we don't possess the ability to step back and consider, to debate like adults and to analyse life, here in this neck of the woods. Actually, the fact that the issue is so important is reflected in the INABILITY and INCOMPETENCE of holding together a civilised discussion on REAL ISSUES in REAL LIFE.

As the OP, I suggest that this thread is locked. The answer to the thread title is startlingly clear, and has been made so by the behaviour in this thread. There is no more to say here. Real life issues are clearly uncharted territory for the rabble that congregate in sports forums. Disappointing... but to be expected, unfortunately.

Well said. Some people on here need to grow up and stop trolling, especially those same people who are quick enough to accuse others of trolling in threads where the subject is close to their own heart and someone gives a view that they cannot accept.

This topic could have seen an interesting discussion but alas that is no longer the case due to one member lighting the blue touch paper and running away very quickly indeed. Locking this thread would be a shame but it is needed, unless a mod' would delete some posts and issue warnings to the main culprit(s) and we can get this discussion back on track. I gree with you that it is disappointing and am saddened by the fact that it was expected.

[LewEngBridewell]

Aye, what can you do? My only intentions were to enjoy a debate about a subject that doesn't often get addressed. A debate which could have been very interesting, given that this forum has plenty of members who I enjoy talking with. But the result seems to have been the creation of some fictitious idea of lunacy which has put me in a somewhat darkened light.

Why couldn't it have been a good debate? It's a real subject. It's life. Why stop ourselves from talking openly about it? Why do some members insist on it not being discussed? Since WHEN is this a taboo subject? Why do people need to get heated at the prospect of such topics? CAN THEY NOT SEE HOW IGNORANT and FOOLISH it is to insist on keeping certain areas of life swept under the carpet, in a thoroughly despicable, middle-class and conservative manner?

And then you get folk like tex and LRW, fuelling the fire by saying nothing other than the subject is pointless. If that's all you felt like contributing, then why even bother? You clearly either want to evade this discussion, or are afraid of it, or look down on it, or something, so why even participate?

Sorry for appearing to ruffle so many feathers here. It wasn't intentional. I'm not a troll, or someone who purposely creates naff threads. Clearly we shouldn't venture into such territory here again. The sporting community simply can't handle it.



AT LEAST THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION IS CLEAR ENOUGH!

[darwin dali]

Aye, what can you do? My only intentions were to enjoy a debate about a subject that doesn't often get addressed. A debate which could have been very interesting, given that this forum has plenty of members who I enjoy talking with. But the result seems to have been the creation of some fictitious idea of lunacy which has put me in a somewhat darkened light.

Why couldn't it have been a good debate? It's a real subject. It's life. Why stop ourselves from talking openly about it? Why do some members insist on it not being discussed? Since WHEN is this a taboo subject? Why do people need to get heated at the prospect of such topics? CAN THEY NOT SEE HOW IGNORANT and FOOLISH it is to insist on keeping certain areas of life swept under the carpet, in a thoroughly despicable, middle-class and conservative manner?

And then you get folk like tex and LRW, fuelling the fire by saying nothing other than the subject is pointless. If that's all you felt like contributing, then why even bother? You clearly either want to evade this discussion, or are afraid of it, or look down on it, or something, so why even participate?

Sorry for appearing to ruffle so many feathers here. It wasn't intentional. I'm not a troll, or someone who purposely creates naff threads. Clearly we shouldn't venture into such territory here again. The sporting community simply can't handle it.

Just a temporary little setback in your run for office, nothing major

[LRW]

And then you get folk like tex and LRW, fuelling the fire by saying nothing other than the subject is pointless. If that's all you felt like contributing, then why even bother? You clearly either want to evade this discussion, or are afraid of it, or look down on it, or something, so why even participate?

When you start a thread / discussion, you need to be prepared for all different opinions to be put forward. Whether that's in agreement with you, against you or even the opinion that the topic should be a non-topic.

In response to you statement "You clearly either want to evade this discussion, or are afraid of it, or look down on it, or something, so why even participate?", you are totally wrong. In the world I live, and the people I live with, this IS a non-issue. Now I may be lucky, and this may not be the experiences of a lot of people on here. However - YOU asked the question and I gave my point of view. If you dont want an opinion given, dont ask a question. Unless you want to vet everybody's opinion before it is posted?

[acosmichippo]

I miscalculated badly. I overestimated the tolerance and maturity of some members here. It appears we don't possess the ability to step back and consider, to debate like adults and to analyse life, here in this neck of the woods. Actually, the fact that the issue is so important is reflected in the INABILITY and INCOMPETENCE of holding together a civilised discussion on REAL ISSUES in REAL LIFE.

This.

Most people here can barely discuss racing without reducing themselves to personal attacks, so there's no way a discussion about actual, real-world issues was ever going to work.

That being said, I certainly don't blame you for trying to have a proper discussion about it. Quite the contrary, threads like these just make it easier to see who the real assholes are.

[darwin dali]

I miscalculated badly. I overestimated the tolerance and maturity of some members here. It appears we don't possess the ability to step back and consider, to debate like adults and to analyse life, here in this neck of the woods. Actually, the fact that the issue is so important is reflected in the INABILITY and INCOMPETENCE of holding together a civilised discussion on REAL ISSUES in REAL LIFE.

This.

Most people here can barely discuss racing without reducing themselves to personal attacks, so there's no way a discussion about actual, real-world issues was ever going to work.

That being said, I certainly don't blame you for trying to have a proper discussion about it. Quite the contrary, threads like these just make it easier to see who the real assholes are.

A bit harsh

[andrew]

In response to you statement "You clearly either want to evade this discussion, or are afraid of it, or look down on it, or something, so why even participate?", you are totally wrong. In the world I live, and the people I live with, this IS a non-issue. Now I may be lucky, and this may not be the experiences of a lot of people on here. However - YOU asked the question and I gave my point of view. If you dont want an opinion given, dont ask a question. Unless you want to vet everybody's opinion before it is posted?

There are ways of saying something where you can get accross an opposing point of view without causing offense but that seems to have been forgotten at times but I guess this happens at times if we feel rather strongly about a subject.

I miscalculated badly. I overestimated the tolerance and maturity of some members here. It appears we don't possess the ability to step back and consider, to debate like adults and to analyse life, here in this neck of the woods. Actually, the fact that the issue is so important is reflected in the INABILITY and INCOMPETENCE of holding together a civilised discussion on REAL ISSUES in REAL LIFE.

This.

Most people here can barely discuss racing without reducing themselves to personal attacks, so there's no way a discussion about actual, real-world issues was ever going to work.

That being said, I certainly don't blame you for trying to have a proper discussion about it. Quite the contrary, threads like these just make it easier to see who the real assholes are.

Have to agree with Lew and Acosmichippo. I would add that maybe if the moderation was a bit tighter (not by much) we'd avoid situations like this where a thread decends into a slagging match (that's an observation, not a criticism mod's). The forum rules are very clear -

Should users be unable to stick to these etiquette guidelines, the following infringements can earn a warning and/or ban depending on severity.

* Personal insults, including derogatory names of F1 drivers.
* Threatening behaviour.
* Perpetually argumentative or excessively aggressive responses.
* Sexism, ageism, racism, including nationalistic, religious and sexual orientation intolerance.
* Posts intended to flame and/or provoke users for a reaction, regardless of subtlety.
* Posting of private messages on the public forum.
* Posting private details of another user.
* Not complying with moderator requests and/or questioning moderator decisions on the open forum; any questions/complaints should be sent via PM to a member of the moderation team.

Not wanting to ruffle any feathers with the site brass (far from it - perhaps this is an opportunity to improve?) but maybe this could have been nipped in the bud if The Ram's inflammatory comment had been removed or edited, especially as this thread had gone quiet until last night and the preceeding discussion had been civil and mature.

[darwin dali]

We are usually pretty strict about these issues. However, Ram's post was in thread and on topic so we left it stand. And the reaction to the post by most on here was a negative one - a lesson taught better this way than the brute-force censor hammer, don't you think?
At any rate, a continuation of such postings despite the overwhelming disapproval of it, would have (and will) be cause for mod action.

[andrew]

That's fair enough in most threads but given that this thread is of a sensative nature to some members, do you not think that his post could have caused a huge amount of offence? Ok it was meant to be jocular (I hope) but it is easy to see how someone could take real offence.

[darwin dali]

On the other hand, you could say that the wide disapproval of that post is a testament of the maturity of at least some members on here. If there was a vocal homophobic minority or even a majority on here, then the potentially offended minority would have needed the protection from the censor hammer right away. But seeing that the post was already being ripped apart by our members, we were able to leave it on and monitor the course this thread took in a more self-regulatory manner. It is after all the topic of this thread.
The public condemnation of the offending post should also be seen as a positive sign which could offset negative feelings and sensitivities, something that wouldn't be possible if the censor hammer had come down right away.
If you truly want to discuss such topics, you can't stifle the discussion with aggressive moderating. You have to see/hear all angles and the reactions to the viewpoints expressed. We're trying to enable this here and walking a tight rope in the process, so rather than criticizing our approach, maybe you should appreciate the freedom of speech we grant (to an extent) and help bring the discussion back to the more rational level of before.

[andrew]

I wasn't making any criticism at all, as I mentioned above. That was not my intention and I apologise if you have taken any offence from my comments. I was pointing out a possible area to improve. Surely the only way to improve the moderation of the site is from feedback from regular members?

[bud]

That's fair enough in most threads but given that this thread is of a sensative nature to some members, do you not think that his post could have caused a huge amount of offence? Ok it was meant to be jocular (I hope) but it is easy to see how someone could take real offence.

I think there are a lot of double standards going on here, my example of it supposedly being ok to make fun of ones large appearance as being acceptable. Why are some things acceptable and others not?
People need to lighten up.

[acosmichippo]

You act as if making fun of fat people is OK anytime, anywhere. Yes, it happens. In the proper setting, and if the content is somewhat humorous and original, most of us can suspend judgement of the bad taste for the sake of comedy (see WB's Chris Rock video). This applies to any kind of stereotype-based humor, even gay and fat people. Maybe even fat, gay people (that's a joke).

The problem here is that the post in question wasn't in the proper setting, nor did the "humor" go beyond regurgitating insulting, ignorant stereotypes. In fact, it was so un-funny that most people probably didn't even consider that it was an attempt at humor, hence the backlash.

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