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[nish2280]

I have to agree, Vettel is not a clean overtaker. He might try to be but it always seems like he rushes it and just when he thinks he has got past he messes it up. You can see that in Turkey, Spa and Silverstone (on sutil). He gets a tow or alongside and then just seems to panic or overestimate his car's ability.

to be honest, there arent many clean overtakers in the sport today (or any specific era actually). Right now, the cleanest overtakers are Heidfeld and alonso. The rest arent all that clean, even the current 'overtaking king' (Kamui Kobayashi), he isn't clean at all. EDIT [So it doesn't make much difference being clean or not. Its all a matter of keeping your car in one piece and not causing some unnecessary dirt to the other guy.]

Last yr both Webber and Vettel looked rather sketchy on their overtaking. So i dont think it was a matter of just Vettel being sloppy... This yr's car looks a lot more generous, and even if we havent seen Vettel do much either bad or good, i cant really say he's been dirty (or dirtier than the rest).

Good point. I guess there is also a style in which a driver overtakes. For example, Kubica and Kobayashi are super agressive when they are getting past someone while on the other hand (as you said) Alonso and Heidfeld are more patient and wait for the perfect opportunity before making their move.

[racechick]

I have to agree, Vettel is not a clean overtaker. He might try to be but it always seems like he rushes it and just when he thinks he has got past he messes it up. You can see that in Turkey, Spa and Silverstone (on sutil). He gets a tow or alongside and then just seems to panic or overestimate his car's ability.

to be honest, there arent many clean overtakers in the sport today (or any specific era actually). Right now, the cleanest overtakers are Heidfeld and alonso. The rest arent all that clean, even the current 'overtaking king' (Kamui Kobayashi), he isn't clean at all. EDIT [So it doesn't make much difference being clean or not. Its all a matter of keeping your car in one piece and not causing some unnecessary dirt to the other guy.]

Last yr both Webber and Vettel looked rather sketchy on their overtaking. So i dont think it was a matter of just Vettel being sloppy... This yr's car looks a lot more generous, and even if we havent seen Vettel do much either bad or good, i cant really say he's been dirty (or dirtier than the rest).

Good point. I guess there is also a style in which a driver overtakes. For example, Kubica and Kobayashi are super agressive when they are getting past someone while on the other hand (as you said) Alonso and Heidfeld are more patient and wait for the perfect opportunity before making their move.

But they dont get past so much. Id rather watch Kobi or lewis, they do get past often.

[vlad]

I have to agree that Vettel gets on my nerves because of his incompetent fans that know nothing about F1.

Go outside, check if you're there... If not, try again, later!

[F1er]

I have to agree that Vettel gets on my nerves because of his incompetent fans that know nothing about F1.

Go outside, check if you're there... If not, try again, later!

[The Ram]

But they dont get past so much. Id rather watch Kobi or lewis, they do get past often.

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

[darwin dali]

But they dont get past so much. Id rather watch Kobi or lewis, they do get past often.

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

At the going rate, SV's profile will be raised high enough, more precisely by a second world championship

[vlad]

[billindenver]

But they dont get past so much. Id rather watch Kobi or lewis, they do get past often.

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

At the going rate, SV's profile will be raised high enough, more precisely by a second world championship

I admit to disliking the dominance thus far this season, but I have to admit that Seb has made
very few mistakes. Should he get the championship that puts him in the double club, I will be happy for him.

Others have had ample opportunity to do so over the last several years and have blown it more than once...proving it's not easy to weather the pressure and lessor men can easily fold under it. We have seen commanding leads thrown away with simple mistakes and over reaching. Such could easily happen to Seb if he cracks under the pressure.

As for his profile versus Hamilton, I suspect by the end of this season he will have left Hamilton in the dust in every measurable stat except number of championships lost due to inability to handle the pressure. Seb has matured faster than Hamilton, or at least so it seems thus far. There is still plenty of time for Seb to fold up like Hamilton did. I find myself on the fence as to which outcome I'd like to see.

[FRAFPDD]

But they dont get past so much. Id rather watch Kobi or lewis, they do get past often.

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

At the going rate, SV's profile will be raised high enough, more precisely by a second world championship

I admit to disliking the dominance thus far this season, but I have to admit that Seb has made
very few mistakes. Should he get the championship that puts him in the double club, I will be happy for him.

Others have had ample opportunity to do so over the last several years and have blown it more than once...proving it's not easy to weather the pressure and lessor men can easily fold under it. We have seen commanding leads thrown away with simple mistakes and over reaching. Such could easily happen to Seb if he cracks under the pressure.

As for his profile versus Hamilton, I suspect by the end of this season he will have left Hamilton in the dust in every measurable stat except number of championships lost due to inability to handle the pressure. Seb has matured faster than Hamilton, or at least so it seems thus far. There is still plenty of time for Seb to fold up like Hamilton did. I find myself on the fence as to which outcome I'd like to see.

Was there any point to this post other then to fuel your fetish for dissing Hamilton?

Be interested to see what your opinion on Vettel having more championships then Mansell, same a Alonso, more then Raikkonen is, considering stats are the be all and end all of whos better.

[bud]

Hamiltons never had a car that was as dominant as Sebs last two cars. Stupid comparing different seasons with different circumstances. Only people looking for faults in a certain driver will be so eager to do so

[Coronis]

But they dont get past so much. Id rather watch Kobi or lewis, they do get past often.

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

At the going rate, SV's profile will be raised high enough, more precisely by a second world championship

I admit to disliking the dominance thus far this season, but I have to admit that Seb has made
very few mistakes. Should he get the championship that puts him in the double club, I will be happy for him.

Others have had ample opportunity to do so over the last several years and have blown it more than once...proving it's not easy to weather the pressure and lessor men can easily fold under it. We have seen commanding leads thrown away with simple mistakes and over reaching. Such could easily happen to Seb if he cracks under the pressure.

As for his profile versus Hamilton, I suspect by the end of this season he will have left Hamilton in the dust in every measurable stat except number of championships lost due to inability to handle the pressure. Seb has matured faster than Hamilton, or at least so it seems thus far. There is still plenty of time for Seb to fold up like Hamilton did. I find myself on the fence as to which outcome I'd like to see.

Was there any point to this post other then to fuel your fetish for dissing Hamilton?

Be interested to see what your opinion on Vettel having more championships then Mansell, same a Alonso, more then Raikkonen is, considering stats are the be all and end all of whos better.

Everything he said is pretty much true, and yeah it seems to me that Vettel is a better driver than Hamilton, and I'd be willing to say at least equal to the three you mentioned. In the future, he has the potential to perhaps even challenge Schumacher's records! Granted, he's still young, but that just means he has a lot of potential and a lot of time to catch up on some other's records.

[FRAFPDD]

But they dont get past so much. Id rather watch Kobi or lewis, they do get past often.

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

At the going rate, SV's profile will be raised high enough, more precisely by a second world championship

I admit to disliking the dominance thus far this season, but I have to admit that Seb has made
very few mistakes. Should he get the championship that puts him in the double club, I will be happy for him.

Others have had ample opportunity to do so over the last several years and have blown it more than once...proving it's not easy to weather the pressure and lessor men can easily fold under it. We have seen commanding leads thrown away with simple mistakes and over reaching. Such could easily happen to Seb if he cracks under the pressure.

As for his profile versus Hamilton, I suspect by the end of this season he will have left Hamilton in the dust in every measurable stat except number of championships lost due to inability to handle the pressure. Seb has matured faster than Hamilton, or at least so it seems thus far. There is still plenty of time for Seb to fold up like Hamilton did. I find myself on the fence as to which outcome I'd like to see.

Was there any point to this post other then to fuel your fetish for dissing Hamilton?

Be interested to see what your opinion on Vettel having more championships then Mansell, same a Alonso, more then Raikkonen is, considering stats are the be all and end all of whos better.

Everything he said is pretty much true, and yeah it seems to me that Vettel is a better driver than Hamilton, and I'd be willing to say at least equal to the three you mentioned. In the future, he has the potential to perhaps even challenge Schumacher's records! Granted, he's still young, but that just means he has a lot of potential and a lot of time to catch up on some other's records.

What he said about Vettel being better then Hamilton is his opinion, it is not truth. Truth and Opinion are two complete opposites.

I dont believe what he's saying about Vettel and you agreeing is right personally, i have a different opinion. But his whole post was just a diss about Hamilton, you might be new but you should be able to see it.

[billindenver]

But they dont get past so much. Id rather watch Kobi or lewis, they do get past often.

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

At the going rate, SV's profile will be raised high enough, more precisely by a second world championship

I admit to disliking the dominance thus far this season, but I have to admit that Seb has made
very few mistakes. Should he get the championship that puts him in the double club, I will be happy for him.

Others have had ample opportunity to do so over the last several years and have blown it more than once...proving it's not easy to weather the pressure and lessor men can easily fold under it. We have seen commanding leads thrown away with simple mistakes and over reaching. Such could easily happen to Seb if he cracks under the pressure.

As for his profile versus Hamilton, I suspect by the end of this season he will have left Hamilton in the dust in every measurable stat except number of championships lost due to inability to handle the pressure. Seb has matured faster than Hamilton, or at least so it seems thus far. There is still plenty of time for Seb to fold up like Hamilton did. I find myself on the fence as to which outcome I'd like to see.

Was there any point to this post other then to fuel your fetish for dissing Hamilton?

Be interested to see what your opinion on Vettel having more championships then Mansell, same a Alonso, more then Raikkonen is, considering stats are the be all and end all of whos better.

I wasn't dissing Hamilton. I was stating facts. I'd be willing to wager that your hero is far less thin skinned about his mistakes than his fans are. But tell me this...why didn't you take exception to this:

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

Or the dozen other posts by the Hamilton fanboy club putting down Vettel? If you are so worried about people being gentle in their criticisms? Why not police your own group as strictly as you do those your group seeks to put down? Why is your group in this thread dissing Vettel anyway? Wouldn't they be more comfortable in one of the dozen threads filled with nothing but fans who have nicknamed Hamilton a god driver?

[FRAFPDD]

But they dont get past so much. Id rather watch Kobi or lewis, they do get past often.

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

At the going rate, SV's profile will be raised high enough, more precisely by a second world championship

I admit to disliking the dominance thus far this season, but I have to admit that Seb has made
very few mistakes. Should he get the championship that puts him in the double club, I will be happy for him.

Others have had ample opportunity to do so over the last several years and have blown it more than once...proving it's not easy to weather the pressure and lessor men can easily fold under it. We have seen commanding leads thrown away with simple mistakes and over reaching. Such could easily happen to Seb if he cracks under the pressure.

As for his profile versus Hamilton, I suspect by the end of this season he will have left Hamilton in the dust in every measurable stat except number of championships lost due to inability to handle the pressure. Seb has matured faster than Hamilton, or at least so it seems thus far. There is still plenty of time for Seb to fold up like Hamilton did. I find myself on the fence as to which outcome I'd like to see.

Was there any point to this post other then to fuel your fetish for dissing Hamilton?

Be interested to see what your opinion on Vettel having more championships then Mansell, same a Alonso, more then Raikkonen is, considering stats are the be all and end all of whos better.

I wasn't dissing Hamilton. I was stating facts. I'd be willing to wager that your hero is far less thin skinned about his mistakes than his fans are. But tell me this...why didn't you take exception to this:

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

Or the dozen other posts by the Hamilton fanboy club putting down Vettel? If you are so worried about people being gentle in their criticisms? Why not police your own group as strictly as you do those your group seeks to put down? Why is your group in this thread dissing Vettel anyway? Wouldn't they be more comfortable in one of the dozen threads filled with nothing but fans who have nicknamed Hamilton a god driver?

Bud and F1er, prominent Hamilton preachers have been blocked by me a Hamilton fan, no Alonso fans are blocked, no Ferrari fans, just two Hamilton fans.

Cause i couldnt stand their fanboyism.

You might want to find a new argument, i might be the only one on here that will happily "betray" his own side.


Btw this " i wasnt dissing hamilton, i was stating facts"

As of the present Hamilton has won more races and as many champipnships as Vettel, You werent talking facts, you were talking in future tense. The facts my friend are that Hamilton is the more accomplished driver. Fine give it a few races and Vettel will be ahead, but you werent saying that. You got all smartarsy with facts when your not actually following them.

Im also one of the Hamilton fans more then used to people mindlessly bashing him,they do it all the time, sticks and stones really, so in the words of Dirty Harry:

"Go ahead, make my day"

[billindenver]

But they dont get past so much. Id rather watch Kobi or lewis, they do get past often.

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

At the going rate, SV's profile will be raised high enough, more precisely by a second world championship

I admit to disliking the dominance thus far this season, but I have to admit that Seb has made
very few mistakes. Should he get the championship that puts him in the double club, I will be happy for him.

Others have had ample opportunity to do so over the last several years and have blown it more than once...proving it's not easy to weather the pressure and lessor men can easily fold under it. We have seen commanding leads thrown away with simple mistakes and over reaching. Such could easily happen to Seb if he cracks under the pressure.

As for his profile versus Hamilton, I suspect by the end of this season he will have left Hamilton in the dust in every measurable stat except number of championships lost due to inability to handle the pressure. Seb has matured faster than Hamilton, or at least so it seems thus far. There is still plenty of time for Seb to fold up like Hamilton did. I find myself on the fence as to which outcome I'd like to see.

Was there any point to this post other then to fuel your fetish for dissing Hamilton?

Be interested to see what your opinion on Vettel having more championships then Mansell, same a Alonso, more then Raikkonen is, considering stats are the be all and end all of whos better.

I wasn't dissing Hamilton. I was stating facts. I'd be willing to wager that your hero is far less thin skinned about his mistakes than his fans are. But tell me this...why didn't you take exception to this:

Let us extricate Lewis Hamilton from this thread. The Vettel fans are just using Hamilton's name to raise Vettel's profile.

Or the dozen other posts by the Hamilton fanboy club putting down Vettel? If you are so worried about people being gentle in their criticisms? Why not police your own group as strictly as you do those your group seeks to put down? Why is your group in this thread dissing Vettel anyway? Wouldn't they be more comfortable in one of the dozen threads filled with nothing but fans who have nicknamed Hamilton a god driver?

Bud and F1er, prominent Hamilton preachers have been blocked by me a Hamilton fan, no Alonso fans are blocked, no Ferrari fans, just two Hamilton fans.

Cause i couldnt stand their fanboyism.

You might want to find a new argument, i might be the only one on here that will happily "betray" his own side.


Btw this " i wasnt dissing hamilton, i was stating facts"

As of the present Hamilton has won more races and as many champipnships as Vettel, You werent talking facts, you were talking in future tense. The facts my friend are that Hamilton is the more accomplished driver. Fine give it a few races and Vettel will be ahead, but you werent saying that. You got all smartarsy with facts when your not actually following them.

Im also one of the Hamilton fans more then used to people mindlessly bashing him,they do it all the time, sticks and stones really, so in the words of Dirty Harry:

"Go ahead, make my day"

I agree, you are typically a level headed poster. I think you either misread or misunderstood what I posted though. If you go back, you will see that I did in fact say 'I suspect'. Had I known that this was the part of my post that you took offense to, I would have pointed it out earlier. That Vettel will surpass Hamiltons stats this season is, of course, merely a suspicion and as I said...Vettel still has plenty of time to blow it. He may well do so.