FORUMula1.com

[Denthúl]

I wonder if this is, at least in part, due to using a synthetic material rather than natural rubber to make the tyres. What did Bridgestone use?

Tires have been made mostly from synthetic rubber for a loooong time.

Ignore me then.

[nish2280]

If i get a lump of tyre in my tea it will ruin my weekend, that is for sure.

[darwin dali]

The problem with the tires isn't that they're degrading quickly, the problem is the way they degrade. Typically those marbles instead of being strewn about the side of the racing line would have rubbered in the racing line itself. So what we're getting instead of the distinct black racing line forming during the weekend we're accustomed to seeing, is a clean line forming in the middle of black marbles. So the penalty is two fold... not only do you not get the increased grip from the rubbering effect, you not get a treacherous off line section to the track.

Go into an art supply store and look around at the different types of erasers they've got. It's bewildering the things you can do with rubber. So I'm sure they could do whatever they with with the characteristics of the tires, but it's likely that it's too late to do anything about it this year.

'Clag' ©David Hobbs

[spankyham]

so we don't know at this point what they're changing?

We do, and it's another half-arsed half-brained change once more.

They are going to add a stripe again, but to ensure that it doesn't solve the problem, they are going to make it a very thin one.
Also they will keep bringing silver and yellow to the same GP, so even if you do manage to see the stripe on the first lap(afterward it will either be worn off(very close/on the track-surface), or covered in rubber/dust) you definately will not be able to tell if it was either yellow or silver.

I hope the commentators will be commenting on all the pitstops, because honestly that will be the only moment at which they/we can be surtain.

They did have the thin gold strip around the option tyre in Malaysia. I got a close-up of it and you can see how half-arsed and what a rush job it was. My 3 year old could have done a better job.

[spankyham]

At least Sepang completely blew away the silly idea that some teams would actually "plan" to do 4 stops

Of the 17 cars that finished:-
5 cars did 2 stops (interesting so many could manage on only 3 sets of tyres at such a harsh track in a dry race)
9 cars did 3 stops
Alonso and Hamilton changed tyres after their coming together late in the race (they were scheduled for 3 stops)
Webber had one additional change added due to his really bad start from his KERS failing (he also had 3 stops planned)

[darwin dali]

Webber had one additional change added due to his really bad start from his KERS failing (he also had 3 stops planned)

Not sure you can dismiss that in this way: they changed PLANS after the poor start, so from then on it was planned to have 4 stops as part of an aggressive strategy (and it worked quite well due to MW doing a great job). You made it almost sound as if they had to involuntarily schedule a 4th stop because of the poor start - but that was their choice, i.e., their plan, not comparable to LH/FA with the coming together causing even worse tire performance.

[sennasational]

Webber had one additional change added due to his really bad start from his KERS failing (he also had 3 stops planned)

Not sure you can dismiss that in this way: they changed PLANS after the poor start, so from then on it was planned to have 4 stops as part of an aggressive strategy (and it worked quite well due to MW doing a great job). You made it almost sound as if they had to involuntarily schedule a 4th stop because of the poor start - but that was their choice, i.e., their plan, not comparable to LH/FA with the coming together causing even worse tire performance.

After Webber had a poor start his plan changed from a 3 stop to a 4 stop. This is no different to the Hamilton/Alonso in that their initial 3 stop strategy changed to a 4 stop after they connected. The time isn't relevant, all the mentioned drivers changed strategies after an incident. The difference I think you are pointing out is that Mark didn't HAVE to do a 4 stop, neither did Hamilton to be fair. The point is that had things gone to the initial plan, no drivers would have been or needed to be on a 4 stop strategy for tyres.

[Hammer278]

At least Sepang completely blew away the silly idea that some teams would actually "plan" to do 4 stops

Of the 17 cars that finished:-
5 cars did 2 stops (interesting so many could manage on only 3 sets of tyres at such a harsh track in a dry race)
9 cars did 3 stops
Alonso and Hamilton changed tyres after their coming together late in the race (they were scheduled for 3 stops)
Webber had one additional change added due to his really bad start from his KERS failing (he also had 3 stops planned)

The argument overall was that 4 stops can happen in a race to make a strategy work. And it was 100% true. Malaysia was just the second race and it was clearly used to get Webber back in the race, and maybe to keep Lewis in the race.

[darwin dali]

Webber had one additional change added due to his really bad start from his KERS failing (he also had 3 stops planned)

Not sure you can dismiss that in this way: they changed PLANS after the poor start, so from then on it was planned to have 4 stops as part of an aggressive strategy (and it worked quite well due to MW doing a great job). You made it almost sound as if they had to involuntarily schedule a 4th stop because of the poor start - but that was their choice, i.e., their plan, not comparable to LH/FA with the coming together causing even worse tire performance.

After Webber had a poor start his plan changed from a 3 stop to a 4 stop. This is no different to the Hamilton/Alonso in that their initial 3 stop strategy changed to a 4 stop after they connected. The time isn't relevant, all the mentioned drivers changed strategies after an incident. The difference I think you are pointing out is that Mark didn't HAVE to do a 4 stop, neither did Hamilton to be fair. The point is that had things gone to the initial plan, no drivers would have been or needed to be on a 4 stop strategy for tyres.

Yes, I agree that my emphasis was on the HAVE to. But LH apparently really had to, no real choice. MW had a choice - he could have gone conservatively, but the team elected to go aggressive to make up what he had lost during the start, so that's a choice. And now, after having shown that it is possible and yielding a quite positive outcome, a 4-stop strategy from the get go (e.g., for somebody starting around 10th or 11th as MW de facto did after the first lap) might become an alternative strategy on certain circuits.

[spankyham]

Webber had one additional change added due to his really bad start from his KERS failing (he also had 3 stops planned)

Not sure you can dismiss that in this way: they changed PLANS after the poor start, so from then on it was planned to have 4 stops as part of an aggressive strategy (and it worked quite well due to MW doing a great job). You made it almost sound as if they had to involuntarily schedule a 4th stop because of the poor start - but that was their choice, i.e., their plan, not comparable to LH/FA with the coming together causing even worse tire performance.

It surely was a great drive from Webbo. And, yes, after the KERS failure and associated bad start they had to change their plan. Adding the additional stop at that point gave them clear track and Mark was able to get back to 4th.

I'd bet he'd have preferred to go with their race plan of KERS working and 3 stops though, and, I'd also bet that would have put him on the podium.

Clearly no-one starts a race with a 4-stop plan

[spankyham]

At least Sepang completely blew away the silly idea that some teams would actually "plan" to do 4 stops

Of the 17 cars that finished:-
5 cars did 2 stops (interesting so many could manage on only 3 sets of tyres at such a harsh track in a dry race)
9 cars did 3 stops
Alonso and Hamilton changed tyres after their coming together late in the race (they were scheduled for 3 stops)
Webber had one additional change added due to his really bad start from his KERS failing (he also had 3 stops planned)

The argument overall was that 4 stops can happen in a race to make a strategy work. And it was 100% true. Malaysia was just the second race and it was clearly used to get Webber back in the race, and maybe to keep Lewis in the race.

I don't know who was arguing that 4 stops couldn't happen. I simply maintained that no-one would start a race planning 4 stops - makes no sense. I actually said 4 stops could happen, from bad driving or bad luck, and I think that exactly covers what happened at Sepang - bad luck for Webbo, Nando and Lewis.

I mean 8 stops "could" happen, but that also wouldn't be planned before the race starts.

[Hammer278]

It could still happen. Based on what few teams learned from Malaysia, 3 stops didn't quite work with what they had did it? Moving forwards to other tracks of abrasive nature, I bet front runners could contemplate it.

Time will tell!

[What's Burning?]

At least Sepang completely blew away the silly idea that some teams would actually "plan" to do 4 stops

Of the 17 cars that finished:-
5 cars did 2 stops (interesting so many could manage on only 3 sets of tyres at such a harsh track in a dry race)
9 cars did 3 stops
Alonso and Hamilton changed tyres after their coming together late in the race (they were scheduled for 3 stops)
Webber had one additional change added due to his really bad start from his KERS failing (he also had 3 stops planned)

The argument overall was that 4 stops can happen in a race to make a strategy work. And it was 100% true. Malaysia was just the second race and it was clearly used to get Webber back in the race, and maybe to keep Lewis in the race.

I don't know who was arguing that 4 stops couldn't happen. I simply maintained that no-one would start a race planning 4 stops - makes no sense. I actually said 4 stops could happen, from bad driving or bad luck, and I think that exactly covers what happened at Sepang - bad luck for Webbo, Nando and Lewis.

I mean 8 stops "could" happen, but that also wouldn't be planned before the race starts.

You've used your allowed quota of hyperbole for the day. You'd still have some left over if you said 5 or 6 and not gone all the way to 8.

I think we can agree that this issue has set the tone for the year more so than DRS and the reintroduction of KERS. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the debut of the super softs.

[darwin dali]

I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the debut of the super softs.

You evil, evil man you!

[spankyham]

I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the debut of the super softs.

You evil, evil man you!

Might I suggest at Canada, then my 8 stops might not be so hyperbolic.