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[vaptin]

Mclaren decided they didn't care about Lewis doing it on his own, they moved Hekki out of the way for him, the team used a team order to benefit Lewis, no?

[darwin dali]

Mclaren decided they didn't care about Lewis doing it on his own, they moved Hekki out of the way for him, the team used a team order to benefit Lewis, no?

[FRAFPDD]

Mclaren decided they didn't care about Lewis doing it on his own, they moved Hekki out of the way for him, the team used a team order to benefit Lewis, no?

and heres where the two sides wires tangle...

it seems all the against want to do is get mclaren/lewis side to admit mclaren uses team orders, and that the for say yes they did but the circumstances in which they were implemented are acceptable, both sides have a point, the for lewis are being hypocrites if they berate ferrari for doing it but then they have a valid point that alonso was not getting past massa and hamilton was near certain to get past heikki, plus the different strategy and heikki not in title race etc

please nobody reply to my post with a supporting/ opposoing argument, im clearly speaking as a neutral

[billindenver]

Mclaren decided they didn't care about Lewis doing it on his own, they moved Hekki out of the way for him, the team used a team order to benefit Lewis, no?

and heres where the two sides wires tangle...

it seems all the against want to do is get mclaren/lewis side to admit mclaren uses team orders, and that the for say yes they did but the circumstances in which they were implemented are acceptable, both sides have a point, the for lewis are being hypocrites if they berate ferrari for doing it but then they have a valid point that alonso was not getting past massa and hamilton was near certain to get past heikki, plus the different strategy and heikki not in title race etc

please nobody reply to my post with a supporting/ opposoing argument, im clearly speaking as a neutral

There are a couple of Assumptions in there that I will ask for clarification on. One, Hamilton's certainty of a quick pass seems at the very least questionable. Defending is far easier than passing. If heikki had defended as Massa was....how long would it have taken to pass? Would Hamilton have won that race? Would he then have lost the title? If it wS Heikki's decision, why bother with the radio call? The pit board tells the driver who is behind him and by how far.

The second assumption is that Alonso could not pass Massa. Was there a team order in place not to pull a Red Bull? There should have been. I would have in their place.

You are mostly correct in the rest of it, but this keeps coming up because the mclaren lambs keep insisting it stay active. Over and over again making assurances that McLaren would never use team orders. If someone told me the sky was black when I know it to be blue....I would correct them.

[FRAFPDD]

There are a couple of Assumptions in there that I will ask for clarification on. One, Hamilton's certainty of a quick pass seems at the very least questionable. Defending is far easier than passing. If heikki had defended as Massa was....how long would it have taken to pass? Would Hamilton have won that race? Would he then have lost the title? If it wS Heikki's decision, why bother with the radio call? The pit board tells the driver who is behind him and by how far.
The second assumption is that Alonso could not pass Massa. Was there a team order in place not to pull a Red Bull? There should have been. I would have in their place.

You are mostly correct in the rest of it, but this keeps coming up because the mclaren lambs keep insisting it stay active. Over and over again making assurances that McLaren would never use team orders. If someone told me the sky was black when I know it to be blue....I would correct them.[/quote]



I nearly took the bait and took your post seriously, before you inevitably included not just a dig but a "its not us its those dam mclaren "lambs" ruining our tifosis peace offerings to the world of f1, cant we just all be friends" talk, it Literally. makes me gag. i told people not to reply if theor going to push their agenda and youve done nothing but.

[billindenver]

Us tifosi? You think I'm a Ferrari fan?

No sir. Just because I set myself against the McLaren rhetoric, doesn't put me in a red shirt. I've called out the red guys when they've been hypocritical as well, it's just that this particular board is British ruled...so there are far more instances of McLaren hypocrisy to make fun of.

[billindenver]

The board mechanics don't allow individual blocking of PM's.

Yes that is true so I guess we will have to communicate via email then, my email contact is still open so send me your's .

Would you like to wager that if I pulled a bud action on Racechic or MyOwnalias and flooded their inbox with blank PM's that there would suddenly be a way to stop me? I'll bet the ban hammer would come out with superhuman alacrity.

[texasmr2]

Us tifosi? You think I'm a Ferrari fan?

No sir. Just because I set myself against the McLaren rhetoric, doesn't put me in a red shirt. I've called out the red guys when they've been hypocritical as well, it's just that this particular board is British ruled...so there are far more instances of McLaren hypocrisy to make fun of.

The board mechanics don't allow individual blocking of PM's.

Yes that is true so I guess we will have to communicate via email then, my email contact is still open so send me your's .

Would you like to wager that if I pulled a bud action on Racechic or MyOwnalias and flooded their inbox with blank PM's that there would suddenly be a way to stop me? I'll bet the ban hammer would come out with superhuman alacrity.

No comment .

[racechick]

The board mechanics don't allow individual blocking of PM's.

Yes that is true so I guess we will have to communicate via email then, my email contact is still open so send me your's .

Would you like to wager that if I pulled a bud action on Racechic or MyOwnalias and flooded their inbox with blank PM's that there would suddenly be a way to stop me? I'll bet the ban hammer would come out with superhuman alacrity.

Babe, I wouldnt have a clue, you have no idea

[racechick]

Mclaren decided they didn't care about Lewis doing it on his own, they moved Hekki out of the way for him, the team used a team order to benefit Lewis, no?

You miss the point of disadvantaging an opponent, thats what is abhorrant about team orders.

[vaptin]

Mclaren decided they didn't care about Lewis doing it on his own, they moved Hekki out of the way for him, the team used a team order to benefit Lewis, no?

and heres where the two sides wires tangle...

it seems all the against want to do is get mclaren/lewis side to admit mclaren uses team orders, and that the for say yes they did but the circumstances in which they were implemented are acceptable, both sides have a point, the for lewis are being hypocrites if they berate ferrari for doing it but then they have a valid point that alonso was not getting past massa and hamilton was near certain to get past heikki, plus the different strategy and heikki not in title race etc

please nobody reply to my post with a supporting/ opposoing argument, im clearly speaking as a neutral

My point is that teams tend to just implement team orders like any other tactical decision, they aren't making moral choices not to use team orders out of belief that their drivers must compete with each other. Normally that's an advantage anyway though, keeps em both pushing,

Mclaren decided they didn't care about Lewis doing it on his own, they moved Hekki out of the way for him, the team used a team order to benefit Lewis, no?

You miss the point of disadvantaging an opponent, thats what is abhorrant about team orders.

By building a faster car they disadvantage their opponents, unless your talking about disadvantaging the second driver over the first? It's not nice for the second driver, but the teams have the right to decide how they run their team, they compete for the WDC and the WCC, if they decide there's a net benefit overall to back one driver, then they will.

The drivers are just employees of the team, they team ought to give them an equal chance (and will if their sensible), but there aren't obliged and won't continue to treat them equally if they don't want to.

It's up to the drivers to prove and insist their too good to be a number 2, or even that they're good enough its better to just back them as No.1

[nish2280]

And there we go. Another Lewis vs Alonso thread.

[racechick]

Mclaren decided they didn't care about Lewis doing it on his own, they moved Hekki out of the way for him, the team used a team order to benefit Lewis, no?

and heres where the two sides wires tangle...

it seems all the against want to do is get mclaren/lewis side to admit mclaren uses team orders, and that the for say yes they did but the circumstances in which they were implemented are acceptable, both sides have a point, the for lewis are being hypocrites if they berate ferrari for doing it but then they have a valid point that alonso was not getting past massa and hamilton was near certain to get past heikki, plus the different strategy and heikki not in title race etc

please nobody reply to my post with a supporting/ opposoing argument, im clearly speaking as a neutral

My point is that teams tend to just implement team orders like any other tactical decision, they aren't making moral choices not to use team orders out of belief that their drivers must compete with each other. Normally that's an advantage anyway though, keeps em both pushing,

Mclaren decided they didn't care about Lewis doing it on his own, they moved Hekki out of the way for him, the team used a team order to benefit Lewis, no?

You miss the point of disadvantaging an opponent, thats what is abhorrant about team orders.

By building a faster car they disadvantage their opponents, unless your talking about disadvantaging the second driver over the first? It's not nice for the second driver, but the teams have the right to decide how they run their team, they compete for the WDC and the WCC, if they decide there's a net benefit overall to back one driver, then they will.

The drivers are just employees of the team, they team ought to give them an equal chance (and will if their sensible), but there aren't obliged and won't continue to treat them equally if they don't want to.

It's up to the drivers to prove and insist their too good to be a number 2, or even that they're good enough its better to just back them as No.1

Yes I meant disadvantaging the second driver over the first.

[vaptin]

Yes I meant disadvantaging the second driver over the first]

Certainly is harsh, but f1 is cut throat and ruthless. No team will back a driver who they don't think will deliver when they've got another driver they do trust in.

[Robert12010]

imo i dont think that the ferrari fans should keep reminding us about germany 08, it was over 2 years ago! if there was team orders that some seem to belive then fine but 2008 has gone now its nearly 2011!, so lets not worry hey!