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[vaptin]

Even though the team orders ban is now lifted there will still be as much controversy if not more.

Why? Half the fury with Ferrari was people saying they didn't like the lying, and the covering up, attempting to deceive etc, now there's no need for any of that.

By putting it out there its open and acceptable to the rules, people will presumably be less shocked when it happens.

[F1er]

Team Orders are an emotional issue, I don't think you were around when they were hotly debated just after Germany this year. I'm just giving my view, but, I understand there are other views on this.

In every other sport the'' whole team wins''

Agreed. When a team member wins an individual award, eg golden boot, or, in Australian Rules football the Brownlow, Coleman or Norm Smith medal, it is a team achievement as well. What's more, none of those are ever achieved at the expense of the team winning.

And Massa went on record as well! if he became 2nd Rubens he would ..................................................

Because "forward A" kicks 10 goals last week and "forward B" kicks none, doesn't make B a lesser forward into the future. B might have passed the ball to his team-mate to kick all of the 10 goals. A might win the Coleman medal. None of those mean anyone is 2nd, nor does it mean that passing the ball, to ensure your team wins and scores, is anything but a good thing.

The team winning is the prime objective, and great teams, and great team members do everything necessary to ensure that happens. Who the driver is, in that winning car is secondary to the goal of ensuring the team wins.

Team's can now develop strategies and plans to ensure the team wins, just like every other team sport. And, incidentally, team orders have been a universally accepted part of F1 for most of F1's history. Team orders are universally accepted in other motor sports. Team orders are teams being teams.

Since I've played organized sports most my life heres my take!
In most sports there is ONE title! Goals,assists,touchdowns are statistics! at he end the WHOLE TEAM LIFTS THE CUP!

In F1 every race some1 gos to the podium,in the end some1 gets crowned WDC! I DIDNT SEE WEBBER JUMPING IN JOY FOR SEBS WDC! F1 teams have 2 cars 2 teams 2 drivers under 1 BRAND! SO forget the notion it's a team sport! I dont know anybody in their right mind going every week risking their lives,so their teammate can win! NONESENSE!!!!!!!!!!



RACING TEAM (SPORT)

[vaptin]

Those drivers have the same boss, the money for those cars comes out of the same pot. It's a team sport. They share a pit box ffs, the team benefits from the WDC, normally the best strategy is to go all out for it, but sometimes they decide its better to back one driver over another.

The WDC is not what it looks like at first glance to someone not interested in f1, it isn't really a fair competition between the drivers, its perfectly open and well known that some drivers are in crappy teams with crap cars and have no hope of winning the WDC even if they're more talented then the drivers in the better teams and cars.

It's the team that the driver is in that makes a massive difference to their chances, ergo the WDC is a team based competition.

[F1er]

TEAM



INDIVIDUAL (webber didnt get a medal)

[darwin dali]

Team Orders are an emotional issue, I don't think you were around when they were hotly debated just after Germany this year. I'm just giving my view, but, I understand there are other views on this.

In every other sport the'' whole team wins''

Agreed. When a team member wins an individual award, eg golden boot, or, in Australian Rules football the Brownlow, Coleman or Norm Smith medal, it is a team achievement as well. What's more, none of those are ever achieved at the expense of the team winning.

And Massa went on record as well! if he became 2nd Rubens he would ..................................................

Because "forward A" kicks 10 goals last week and "forward B" kicks none, doesn't make B a lesser forward into the future. B might have passed the ball to his team-mate to kick all of the 10 goals. A might win the Coleman medal. None of those mean anyone is 2nd, nor does it mean that passing the ball, to ensure your team wins and scores, is anything but a good thing.

The team winning is the prime objective, and great teams, and great team members do everything necessary to ensure that happens. Who the driver is, in that winning car is secondary to the goal of ensuring the team wins.

Team's can now develop strategies and plans to ensure the team wins, just like every other team sport. And, incidentally, team orders have been a universally accepted part of F1 for most of F1's history. Team orders are universally accepted in other motor sports. Team orders are teams being teams.

Since I've played organized sports most my life heres my take!
In most sports there is ONE title! Goals,assists,touchdowns are statistics! at he end the WHOLE TEAM LIFTS THE CUP!

In F1 every race some1 gos to the podium,in the end some1 gets crowned WDC! I DIDNT SEE WEBBER JUMPING IN JOY FOR SEBS WDC! F1 teams have 2 cars 2 teams 2 drivers under 1 BRAND! SO forget the notion it's a team sport! I dont know anybody in their right mind going every week risking their lives,so their teammate can win! NONESENSE!!!!!!!!!!



RACING TEAM (SPORT)

[youtube]BUra-oOBuTA&feature=related[/youtube]

[vaptin]

Anyone, else care to take over? Just explain why it is a team sport, don't worry about debating team order crap.

Webber won't be happy, he wanted the WDC for himself,


TEAM! Same f***ing uniform.
this is quite fun you know.

There's too separate issues here, do you agree that f1 teams have two drivers (on track at any one time) and the second issue is whether the WDC is the business of the teams or just down to the individual drivers.

[F1er]

My friend! If this is a team sport???? Why did ferraris swap places when the points outcome was the same for the team??? why were they willing to fight for an INDIVIDUAL title that has no monetary income or that it doesnt say your team was the best this season??? why would they crush one of their drivers and killing the chance of the TEAM finishing 2nd in WCC?

As for the same BOSS is rbr and toro rosso one team or two???

[madbrad]

It is the people who govern the circus that have brought it into disrepute, which is where it has been for years.

[vaptin]

My friend! If this is a team sport???? Why did ferraris swap places when the points outcome was the same for the team??? why were they willing to fight for an INDIVIDUAL title that has no monetary income or that it doesnt say your team was the best this season??? why would they crush one of their drivers and killing the chance of the TEAM finishing 2nd in WCC?

As for the same BOSS is rbr and toro rosso one team or two???

Here we go, they swapped places because they considered it more beneficial for the team to favour Alonso, for the purposes of the drivers championship. The team collectively aim to win the WDC championship, it benefits the the team as a whole to have one of their drivers win it.

Ruin their chances of getting 2nd in the WCC, well one might argue winning the WDC is greater than winning the WCC, but that's a strategic decision, Ferrari were pretty low down at that point, had a better chance perhaps of winning the WDC than winning the WCC so they prioritised the WCC perhaps?

Torro Rosso, now thats an interesting question, if you ask me that shouldn't be allowed. It's debatable whether torro rosso should count as a second redbull team or a team in their own right.

Do you know how prevalent team orders have been in the history of f1?

[F1er]

Felipe Massa has warned Ferrari that he will quit the team if they try to "turn him into another Rubens Barrichello".

Jenson Button Will Quit If Team Ordered
I wouldn’t be interested in racing in F1 if, from the first race, you know there was the possibility of being a No.1 or No.2 driver

You believe what you wish! I will go with the drivers! But I guess "What do they know" right?

[vaptin]

Felipe Massa has warned Ferrari that he will quit the team if they try to "turn him into another Rubens Barrichello".

Jenson Button Will Quit If Team Ordered
I wouldn’t be interested in racing in F1 if, from the first race, you know there was the possibility of being a No.1 or No.2 driver

You believe what you wish! I will go with the drivers! But I guess "What do they know" right?

You don't even have a coherent argument, there's always been the possibility of being a No.1 or No.2 driver, the drivers haven't said team orders should be banned, they said they didn't want to be No.2s different thing, you here Hamilton/Alonso/ Schumacher complaining about team orders?

The second driver isn't going to be happy about it, which is why Button and Massa are speaking up, they're at clear risk of becoming No.2s, that doesn't mean they aren't in the same team as their No.1s.

"when the team wins, the car wins", "the drivers drive for Ferrari, not for themselves"

I'm trying to point out to you that team orders have always happened, but don't happen a lot and are just a particular strategy option the teams can use,

Actually, what is your point? You don't like the ban on team orders being lifted, ok, so why not? Because f1 isn't a team sport you say?

And regardless of your personal feelings on the matter, do you have a way to ensure team orders will never happen?

[f1ea]

Felipe Massa has warned Ferrari that he will quit the team if they try to "turn him into another Rubens Barrichello".

Sure. Somewhere he can be the #1 driver?
good luck finding that seat.

[F1er]

My friend! If this is a team sport???? Why did ferraris swap places when the points outcome was the same for the team??? why were they willing to fight for an INDIVIDUAL title that has no monetary income or that it doesnt say your team was the best this season??? why would they crush one of their drivers and killing the chance of the TEAM finishing 2nd in WCC?

As for the same BOSS is rbr and toro rosso one team or two???

Here we go, they swapped places because they considered it more beneficial for the team to favour Alonso, for the purposes of the drivers championship.

Ruin their chances of getting 2nd in the WCC, well one might argue winning the WDC is greater than winning the WCC, but that's a strategic decision?

my point
WDC is an individual achievment 1 DRIVER takes all the glory
WCC=THE BEST TEAM FOR THAT SEASON+LOADS OF $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Thats what F1 has come to ...WDC ! nobody cares for WCC (more than)

In the days of ENZO all he cared for was his car(team) being the best

F1 started about the team,and now it's all about the individual drivers,hence is not the team sport it used to be!

[F1er]

I only agree with team orders when they benefit the TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT an individual driver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vaptin]

No, you don't see, the teams collectively aim to win the WDC, it has never has been, and still isn't just down to the drivers themselves. After winning the WCC in Brazil, did Horner just go, job done from us? Or did he talk about how now they also had to win the WDC?

I'm also not sure about some sort of shift away from the teams towards the drivers, though I'm not knowledgeable on f1 history.