FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[ivey]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88071

Great article where Newey explains why Red Bull has been so good this season - mostly because of the regulations that are new and make the car build more complex, good examples the extreme diffusers and blown-diffusers. Every year the rules change and next year there won't be F-ducts and diffusers, that means also no blown-diffusers. Do the rules next year make the cars more simple to build and we might see more teams competing on top level?

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

The short answer is no, the cars will not be simpler. And if the gaps to the backmarkers narrow, it will be because their cars are better sorted based on the experience they gained during this season, not because the lack of shadow diffusers and F-ducts has slowed the front runners.

The 2011 regs have yet to be approved so it remains to be seen just what will be changed. The Technical Working Group did recommend that DDD technology be banned but it won't be known for certain whether that recommendation was followed until they are signed off on. But regardless, the FOTA already have agreed not to use them. That does not mean they won't continue ducting exhaust gasses through a simpler, pre-Toyota/Brawn-style diffuser, should that prove an effective measure.

The 2011 regs reportedly will allow for an adjustable rear wing, which should mean increases in straight line speed and ease of overtaking, not to mention complexity. And KERS and its cursed weight and complexity also will be making a comeback.

But change in general works to the detriment of the smaller teams. Which is unfortunate, because the FIA can never seem to get it right, which keeps them constantly correcting course. The larger teams tend to have deeper pockets and better developed infrastructures, both of which make them better able to adapt to whatever changes are mandated. If the 2011 changes are substantial enough, I'm certain some of the new teams will be just as hapless next year as they were this.

[The_Stig_Money]

With the way they have been performing the past 3 years Red Bull is going to be one the top dogs for the next couple years.

Success!?!?!?!?!?!? More like landslide ( 8 wins, 20 podiums, 14 pole positions, and great team members )

[scotty]

I'd be pretty damn amazed if Red Bull weren't right up there for the next few seasons, ie until the big change in 2013 (or they lose Newey). Once you get ahead the others are always playing catch up which provides a nice advantage...

Of course, these new tyres could completely throw everything up in the air. I don't know if this is common knowledge but there is an agreement in place for a fixed weight distribution next season (46:54 i think, for those who care) to prevent someone getting completely lucky with the tyres. A sound idea in theory but i don't think it'll quite work out like that in terms of balancing performance.

Also, i wasn't aware that blown exhaust fume technology would be banned can anyone categorically confirm this (with a link preferably)??? I expected that to be the key 'innovation' next year to be honest, as all the teams optimised their systems.

[Big Azza]

Red Bull proved they were the better team. Consider this - In 2009 Ferrari and McLaren dropped to the back because of the rule changes. Red Bull and Honda/Brawn came from the back to end up with fantastic championship-winning cars. In 2010 Honda/Brawn/Mercedes drop back to the middle of the field, Ferrari and McLaren come back to the front but Red Bull is still there.

Next year we will probably see Ferrari drop back again, McLaren still struggling, and Mercedes come back to the front row to battle with Red Bull. We'll probably see a third contender that will provide a big shock to us, like one of the new teams, or Force India or someone like that coming right to the fore splitting the Red Bulls and battling with Vettel for WDC.

Vettel has been up front 2 years in a row, while Webber is just having the season of his life. Expect Vettel to be up front again next year, and leading most races from pole, bar the odd mechanical issue. Webber, if he stays, will only get a couple of wins, but mostly will be battling for third in the championship.

[nish2280]

I think next year Ferrari and Mclaren will be almost the same and RedBull will still be faster.

[thechainrule]

I'm thinking next year will be similar to this year. Exciting points race, reliability issues, amazing qualifying sessions, predictable race results after qualifying.

[Mr.Conte]

Red Bull proved they were the better team. Consider this - In 2009 Ferrari and McLaren dropped to the back because of the rule changes. Red Bull and Honda/Brawn came from the back to end up with fantastic championship-winning cars. In 2010 Honda/Brawn/Mercedes drop back to the middle of the field, Ferrari and McLaren come back to the front but Red Bull is still there.

Next year we will probably see Ferrari drop back again, McLaren still struggling, and Mercedes come back to the front row to battle with Red Bull. We'll probably see a third contender that will provide a big shock to us, like one of the new teams, or Force India or someone like that coming right to the fore splitting the Red Bulls and battling with Vettel for WDC.

Vettel has been up front 2 years in a row, while Webber is just having the season of his life. Expect Vettel to be up front again next year, and leading most races from pole, bar the odd mechanical issue. Webber, if he stays, will only get a couple of wins, but mostly will be battling for third in the championship.

Aahh, hope springs eternal for all..
As for big red "dropping back", "McLaren struggling?"
I hope you don't indulge in whatever your smoking too much....LOL

[Hammer278]

'We don't manipulate things like Ferrari do' - Mateschitz

Red Bull co-owner Dietrich Mateschitz would rather lose the drivers' title to Fernando Alonso and Ferrari than force team orders on his drivers.

If Sebastian Vettel finishes ahead of Mark Webber at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix next weekend, Alonso will only have to finish fourth to seal the title. However, team principal Christian Horner has already made clear that Vettel and Webber will be free to race and make their own decisions as to whether they help each other out in Abu Dhabi.

"Let the two drivers race and whatever will be will be," Mateschitz told Austrian paper Kliene Zeitung. "If Alonso wins we will have been unlucky.

"I predict a Hollywood ending, with the worst case scenario that we don't become champion but if that's the case, we'll do it next year. Our philosophy stays the same because this is a sport and it must remain a sport."

At the German Grand Prix, Felipe Massa made way for Ferrari team-mate Alonso, giving him seven crucial extra points in the championship. But Mateschitz has made clear that his team will not do the same.

"We don't manipulate things like Ferrari do," he added. "The whole world condemned them after what they did in Hockenheim. But we have turned out to look like idiots because we have not acted in this way."

"We have never even thought about it as long as both our drivers remain in the hunt for the championship. So a second place under correct circumstances might be better than a win on grounds of orders and confirmations."

_________________________________

They may not be very successful in record books but at least will be seen in a 100% sporting light. Good on them to stick to the racing philosophy throughout.

[vaptin]

Massa was in the hunt for the championship?

Although redbull can run their team how they want,

Although it sounds like to me that redbull just don't want the bad publicity.

[Hammer278]

When he was told to move aside, he was definitely in the hunt. He wasn;t close but neither was Alonso at that time.

[Gaz]

Red Bull proved they were the better team. Consider this - In 2009 Ferrari and McLaren dropped to the back because of the rule changes. Red Bull and Honda/Brawn came from the back to end up with fantastic championship-winning cars. In 2010 Honda/Brawn/Mercedes drop back to the middle of the field, Ferrari and McLaren come back to the front but Red Bull is still there.

Next year we will probably see Ferrari drop back again, McLaren still struggling, and Mercedes come back to the front row to battle with Red Bull. We'll probably see a third contender that will provide a big shock to us, like one of the new teams, or Force India or someone like that coming right to the fore splitting the Red Bulls and battling with Vettel for WDC.

Vettel has been up front 2 years in a row, while Webber is just having the season of his life. Expect Vettel to be up front again next year, and leading most races from pole, bar the odd mechanical issue. Webber, if he stays, will only get a couple of wins, but mostly will be battling for third in the championship.

You've based that opinion on what?

Don't forget Mclaren and Ferrari ran Kers thought 2009 and Mclaren's KERS was the best.

Based upon this i'd expect Mclaren and Mercades to have a big advantage in 2011 as Red bull has never run KERS.

[ivey]

Gutsy to say that McLaren and Ferrari will drop back as they've dominated the F1 for 20 years for now, hard to believe they have started to lose their touch. We will probably have a new thread on 2011 rules someday but wow, even I didn't remember that KERS is officially given green light by FIA.

[Hansy]

Red Bull proved they were the better team. Consider this - In 2009 Ferrari and McLaren dropped to the back because of the rule changes. Red Bull and Honda/Brawn came from the back to end up with fantastic championship-winning cars. In 2010 Honda/Brawn/Mercedes drop back to the middle of the field, Ferrari and McLaren come back to the front but Red Bull is still there.

Next year we will probably see Ferrari drop back again, McLaren still struggling, and Mercedes come back to the front row to battle with Red Bull. We'll probably see a third contender that will provide a big shock to us, like one of the new teams, or Force India or someone like that coming right to the fore splitting the Red Bulls and battling with Vettel for WDC.

Vettel has been up front 2 years in a row, while Webber is just having the season of his life. Expect Vettel to be up front again next year, and leading most races from pole, bar the odd mechanical issue. Webber, if he stays, will only get a couple of wins, but mostly will be battling for third in the championship.

You've based that opinion on what?

Don't forget Mclaren and Ferrari ran Kers thought 2009 and Mclaren's KERS was the best.

Based upon this i'd expect Mclaren and Mercades to have a big advantage in 2011 as Red bull has never run KERS.

Why Mercedes? Brawn didn't use KERS in 2009, too. Was it developed by Mercedes when McLaren used it in 2009? Are they going to share the system?

[Big Azza]

Red Bull proved they were the better team. Consider this - In 2009 Ferrari and McLaren dropped to the back because of the rule changes. Red Bull and Honda/Brawn came from the back to end up with fantastic championship-winning cars. In 2010 Honda/Brawn/Mercedes drop back to the middle of the field, Ferrari and McLaren come back to the front but Red Bull is still there.

Next year we will probably see Ferrari drop back again, McLaren still struggling, and Mercedes come back to the front row to battle with Red Bull. We'll probably see a third contender that will provide a big shock to us, like one of the new teams, or Force India or someone like that coming right to the fore splitting the Red Bulls and battling with Vettel for WDC.

Vettel has been up front 2 years in a row, while Webber is just having the season of his life. Expect Vettel to be up front again next year, and leading most races from pole, bar the odd mechanical issue. Webber, if he stays, will only get a couple of wins, but mostly will be battling for third in the championship.

You've based that opinion on what?

Don't forget Mclaren and Ferrari ran Kers thought 2009 and Mclaren's KERS was the best.

Based upon this i'd expect Mclaren and Mercades to have a big advantage in 2011 as Red bull has never run KERS.

Ever noticed that since Alonso's 2 world championships it's always looked unlikely for the reigning World Champion to defend his title? Each year the reigning World Champion seems to drop back to midfield. Red Bull are the only team to have stayed at the front for more than one year in a row since I've been watching.