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[Jensonb]

So did Sauber copy McLarens idea, yes or no?

Yeah sort of, but it's less effective. The duct is on the sidepod so the Special Knee Thing isn't part of it, they must be doing something else

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

I rather doubt Sauber had any notion of using any similar elements in their cars before they saw McLaren's device but that's the coin of the realm, innit? A stolen idea is a far cheaper one than one invented from whole cloth, which is precisely why grand scale innovation in F1 is so rare. McLaren spent two years developing the idea and it took less than two months for the competition put their own knock-offs on the track. Same story last year with the shadow diffuser. All that you invest to create the innovation buys you two to four races advantage -- if the FIA don't rule it illegal -- then any advantage diminishes steeply or may altogether disappear.

But the competition can't necessarily copy your small details, your refinement and construction methods so that's where they focus their efforts. RBR are fast because of the sweat-equity Newey invested in the small details of the RB6 chassis. The "catch-up" isn't much a bargain if it costs your own engineer an equal amount.

Can we just address the fact that merely spinning the tyres or fishtailing is not inherently dangerous? It's only dangerous if you lose control of the car. If ANYONE can control a car with the rear end sliding, it's Lewis....

I'm horrified it took someone this long to state the obvious truth.

[stonemonkey]

...............

Can we just address the fact that merely spinning the tyres or fishtailing is not inherently dangerous? It's only dangerous if you lose control of the car. If ANYONE can control a car with the rear end sliding, it's Lewis....

I'm horrified it took someone this long to state the obvious truth.

Maybe they thought he stole it.

[racechick]

I rather doubt Sauber had any notion of using any similar elements in their cars before they saw McLaren's device but that's the coin of the realm, innit? A stolen idea is a far cheaper one than one invented from whole cloth, which is precisely why grand scale innovation in F1 is so rare. McLaren spent two years developing the idea and it took less than two months for the competition put their own knock-offs on the track. Same story last year with the shadow diffuser. All that you invest to create the innovation buys you two to four races advantage -- if the FIA don't rule it illegal -- then any advantage diminishes steeply or may altogether disappear.

But the competition can't necessarily copy your small details, your refinement and construction methods so that's where they focus their efforts. RBR are fast because of the sweat-equity Newey invested in the small details of the RB6 chassis. The "catch-up" isn't much a bargain if it costs your own engineer an equal amount.

Can we just address the fact that merely spinning the tyres or fishtailing is not inherently dangerous? It's only dangerous if you lose control of the car. If ANYONE can control a car with the rear end sliding, it's Lewis....

I'm horrified it took someone this long to state the obvious truth.

[texasmr2]

Which subject are we discussing the F-duct or Lewis's incident?

[racechick]

Which subject are we discussing the F-duct or Lewis's incident?

hmmmmmmm..which do you think Tex?

[stonemonkey]

Which subject are we discussing the F-duct or Lewis's incident?

Both, Lewis got confused and tried to cover the airvent in his Merc with his knee but didn't get the traction he expected.

[darwin dali]

Which subject are we discussing the F-duct or Lewis's incident?

Both, Lewis got confused and tried to cover the airvent in his Merc with his knee but didn't get the traction he expected.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

...............

Can we just address the fact that merely spinning the tyres or fishtailing is not inherently dangerous? It's only dangerous if you lose control of the car. If ANYONE can control a car with the rear end sliding, it's Lewis....

I'm horrified it took someone this long to state the obvious truth.

Maybe they thought he stole it.

I wasn't aware Oz had a law against driving while black.

[texasmr2]

...............

Can we just address the fact that merely spinning the tyres or fishtailing is not inherently dangerous? It's only dangerous if you lose control of the car. If ANYONE can control a car with the rear end sliding, it's Lewis....

I'm horrified it took someone this long to state the obvious truth.

Maybe they thought he stole it.

I wasn't aware Oz had a law against driving while black.

Carefull now .

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Unless McLaren were sandbagging, Ferrari may already have caught up. Massa had the best trap speed in first Shanghai practice, 316 kph. In second practice, Button, Hamilton, Kobayashi, and Sutil all clocked 312kph.

We know Ferrari were keen on comparing their cars trap speeds with and without its use so they taped the F-duct's intake shut on one car but I never learned if it was Massa's car or Alonso's. I presume from the trap speeds that Massa drove the car without the tape.

I do recall seeing one of the Ferraris staying on the throttle and off the binders so far down the front straight it ruined his racing line for the first corner and almost put him in the gravel traps, so these extreme efforts might make their top speed look a bit exaggerated compared to what it might be under actual race conditions. But it's my guess that McLaren's two years of F-duct development bought them a three race advantage.

[darwin dali]

No. From what I understand and from what I've seen FA ran the duct in Practice 1, FM didn't. Neither driver had it on during Practice 2.

[bud]

Yeah Fernando ran it, what's advantageous of the f duct is you can run more rear wing downforce to better suit the twisty parts of the track! I'm betting Felipe was running very low downforce which helped in the straights but killed him on the twisty parts! As shown by the gap between him and P1!