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[Ron Dennis]

I'm not in the habit of quoting NM, but this one I think hits the nail on the head (and ultimately it's RD who's in charge, ain't that the truth?):

Referring to Alonso's bitter pairing with rookie Lewis Hamilton, Mansell said: "It is an internal problem with the team who have demonstrated to the world that they have not managed their drivers very well."

they couldnt manage senna and prost either

Yeah they couldnt manage those two - but remember the classic duels between them? Only one car was cabable of winning when they were together at McLaren, but we still enjoyed the classic battle of the titans.

Now fast forward to 2004 and Ferrari - Only one car cable of winning and only one driver allowed to.

[texasmr2]

Your table looks lovely but who is leading both championships

Nobody! Let's just accept that the WCC is over for this season please . I'm not in my "Ferrari is God" stance either it's just a simple fact that the WCC was won by Ferrari so it's redundent to keep saying McLaren won it. I agree with you that McLaren had it clinched BUT they did not OFFICIALLY win it, case closed.

[Ron Dennis]

Your table looks lovely but who is leading both championships

Nobody! Let's just accept that the WCC is over for this season please . I'm not in my "Ferrari is God" stance either it's just a simple fact that the WCC was won by Ferrari so it's redundent to keep saying McLaren won it. I agree with you that McLaren had it clinched BUT they did not OFFICIALLY win it, case closed.

No mate the WCC was not WON by Ferrari at all, it was given to them.

Big difference.

[texasmr2]

Your table looks lovely but who is leading both championships

Nobody! Let's just accept that the WCC is over for this season please . I'm not in my "Ferrari is God" stance either it's just a simple fact that the WCC was won by Ferrari so it's redundent to keep saying McLaren won it. I agree with you that McLaren had it clinched BUT they did not OFFICIALLY win it, case closed.

No mate the WCC was not WON by Ferrari at all, it was goven to them.

Big difference.

I'm strictly referring to what the record's book's will show RD, that's the only thing that matter's in the end and to me, I'm in no way discounting McLaren's dominant result's this year. I believe the '07 season will still leave us alot to debate in '08.

[ArtHowe]

Artie, since when do we talk just about punishable things on here? Oh, I forget you're a McLaren fan and have become used to constantly trying to defend the dubious actions of your team - relax man, not every post of mine is legal attack

If you forget, try Ginko Biloba, it's supposed to rejuvenate tired, or malfunction, brain cells. Just a friendly suggestion. In the meantime, you didn't address my question Dali, which was "what's your point?". If the post was pointless, just say so. After all Nigel Mansell can, by no stretch of the imagination, be described as possessing an incisive brain. In fact he has the reputation of being as neocortically challenged as pigsh*t.

No offense to pigs, which obviously have to evacuate their bowels just as other animals do.

[ArtHowe]

And, let's face it, this thread, initiated by you, is just another rehash of your antipathy towards Ron Dennis and McLaren. An antipathy which you have been at pains to drone on about for weeks.

"What's the point of repeating one's feeling of disgust for a driver or a team or a team member again and again? It's boring, pointless and just silly." Perhaps you recall writing the foregoing.

[darwin dali]

The point was to show that a former F1 driver with a similar cranial capacity as JS has pointed out flaws in McLaren's handling of their drivers.

[ArtHowe]

Thank you Dali. All I have to add is... "Big Deal"!

[McLaren Fan]

Artie, since when do we talk just about punishable things on here? Oh, I forget you're a McLaren fan and have become used to constantly trying to defend the dubious actions of your team - relax man, not every post of mine is legal attack

How are things at McLaren dubious? Both drivers are given the same kit and are allowed to compete against one another. It's as moral as you're going to get. When you have two competative people in a team tensions can brew, it's a natural side effect. Has it really done McLaren any harm? No. When Prost and Lauda were together, McLaren won; when Senna and Prost were together, McLaren wiped the floor with everybody; when Hamilton and Alonso were together, McLaren won.

[darwin dali]

Artie, since when do we talk just about punishable things on here? Oh, I forget you're a McLaren fan and have become used to constantly trying to defend the dubious actions of your team - relax man, not every post of mine is legal attack

How are things at McLaren dubious? Both drivers are given the same kit and are allowed to compete against one another. It's as moral as you're going to get. When you have two competative people in a team tensions can brew, it's a natural side effect. Has it really done McLaren any harm? No. When Prost and Lauda were together, McLaren won; when Senna and Prost were together, McLaren wiped the floor with everybody; when Hamilton and Alonso were together, McLaren won.

Geez McLaren Fan, do you actually comprehend what you read or do you just enunciate letter by letter?
Where did I say that the 'dubious actions' refer to McLaren's treatment of their drivers?

[McLaren Fan]

Artie, since when do we talk just about punishable things on here? Oh, I forget you're a McLaren fan and have become used to constantly trying to defend the dubious actions of your team - relax man, not every post of mine is legal attack

How are things at McLaren dubious? Both drivers are given the same kit and are allowed to compete against one another. It's as moral as you're going to get. When you have two competative people in a team tensions can brew, it's a natural side effect. Has it really done McLaren any harm? No. When Prost and Lauda were together, McLaren won; when Senna and Prost were together, McLaren wiped the floor with everybody; when Hamilton and Alonso were together, McLaren won.

Geez McLaren Fan, do you actually comprehend what you read or do you just enunciate letter by letter?
Where did I say that the 'dubious actions' refer to McLaren's treatment of their drivers?

My mistake. I was scan reading the thread, saw your username and the word 'dubious' and put two and two together and got five. Apologies.

[darwin dali]

Apologies accepted. Hope you'll improve on your math skills
By now you may have noticed that I usually (not always) place my words very deliberately, so it's more often than not worthwhile to read my posts carefully - just a suggestion

[McLaren Fan]

Apologies accepted. Hope you'll improve on your math skills
By now you may have noticed that I usually (not always) place my words very deliberately, so it's more often than not worthwhile to read my posts carefully - just a suggestion

I've noticed that, however, I get a little bit excited and jumped to conclusions nonetheless.

[darwin dali]

That's why I appreciate our banter as long as we can keep it clean

[Lewisfan]

Mansell really is talking s*** on this occasion. The problem is simple, Dennis supplies equal equipment - and when you get ego's as big as Alonso's matched with confidence (and maybe arrogance) of Hamilton, sparks will always fly.

This was not a problem at Renault, because Flavio pandered Alonso's EGO and never much of a problem at Ferrari because they overtly use team orders to placate their prima donnas, with the FIA’s backing it seems

So go ahead, give Dennis crap for trying to give is a classic season with much dueling - and as you do so, remember 2004 and what Ferrari gave us in the way of fair racing and excitement when they were dominant.

First of all thank you Ron Dennis for coming on this forum and talking so much sense, secondly what you are saying is quite correct. All what McLaren did was supply both drivers with equal car and Alonso couldn't hand it.