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[RA Dunk]

http://www.pitlanefanatic.com/blog/inde ... vertaking/

Makes pretty intresting viewing, just shows the major decline in overtaking since the early eighties and that the rules brought it for this (well last now) season clearly have not worked

[texasmr2]

I think there is another thread concerning this topic but have fun.

[Big Azza]

I could just imagine my name in green.

Oh dear... was I thinking out loud? You're not wrong Tex, but there are an infinite number of threads with people whinging about overtaking.

Tbh I'm satisfied with the amount of overtaking in Formula One today. Then again, I don't know any better - I've only been watching for 2 or 3 seasons.

I don't think having a race with endless overtaking maneuvers would be great for the sport. I like how overtaking is rare-ish and when a driver overtakes I'm amazed. Like Kobi vs Button.

But if I saw a Kobi v. Button overtake 10 times in a race I'd be like, "meh." I watched some lower division Australian Bike Racing on the weekend. We had at least 5 different leaders in a two lap race. It wouldn't be worth qualifying in such an environment unless we went back to the 'ole 1 point for pole position.

[myownalias]

I agree if there were constant overtaking it would be dull but also having very little overtaking it gets equally as dull especially next season with the refuelling ban! I quite enjoy the jockeying for position to make an overtaking move, swarming all over the back of the gearbox of the car in front; KERS overtaking is dull, bring back slipstreaming!

[Big Azza]

I agree if there were constant overtaking it would be dull but also having very little overtaking it gets equally as dull especially next season with the refuelling ban! I quite enjoy the jockeying for position to make an overtaking move, swarming all over the back of the gearbox of the car in front; KERS overtaking is dull, bring back slipstreaming!

Unfortunately slip-streaming is way before my time.

But I have heard of this term when playing Gran Turismo. In my first few months of playing it - I thought that it was a cheat.

I think the "dirty air" factor only comes into place because of the diffuser. What do you think the reason is for there being no overtaking? Hamilton can overtake because of the aggressive driving line that he takes. Why can't other drivers be more aggressive?

[scotty]

Interesting stats, the same goes for the accompanying reading. Upon seeing that, you have to consider just how much of an impact field spread and the difference in speed between the cars was/is, instead of mere aero factors...

I was surprised to see the figure for 2005 so low, considering how many good races there were that season. Is overtaking really what makes a good race, or just unpredictability?

I hope Denthul finds this thread cause he was looking for something like this a while back.

[myownalias]

I agree if there were constant overtaking it would be dull but also having very little overtaking it gets equally as dull especially next season with the refuelling ban! I quite enjoy the jockeying for position to make an overtaking move, swarming all over the back of the gearbox of the car in front; KERS overtaking is dull, bring back slipstreaming!

Unfortunately slip-streaming is way before my time.

But I have heard of this term when playing Gran Turismo. In my first few months of playing it - I thought that it was a cheat.

I think the "dirty air" factor only comes into place because of the diffuser. What do you think the reason is for there being no overtaking? Hamilton can overtake because of the aggressive driving line that he takes. Why can't other drivers be more aggressive?

I think it's partially drivers being scared to make risky overtaking moves for fear of being penalised by stupid stewards decisions; the diffuser has a real affect on dirty air but it's also the way the cars are designed; the cars are too tall and narrow; slipstreaming was possible when cars were lower and wider creating dirty air but the air immediately behind the car was clean; removing wind resistance hence the car behind gets a speed increase. With tall and narrow cars the pocket of clean air isn't wide enough to fit a F1 car in hence disrupting the downforce at the front of the car!

[Big Azza]

I think it's only the aerodynamics that would contribute to overtaking. Because if the cars perform relatively the same mechanically, then you will barely get any overtaking unless there was slip streaming.

Overtaking is impossible because the machinery is equal. Out-braking used to be a good overtaking maneuver - until the stewards seem to start handing out these harsh penalties when you get it all wrong. (Vettel v. Kubica at Australian GP).

Why did they penalise Vettel so harshly for that!!!???

I think overtaking will always be rare, and I think it's virtually pointless trying to find ways to improve conditions for overtaking.

[Rivelution]

bring back slipstreaming!

Bring back innovation. The lack of it is what's making F1 dull.

[Big Azza]

Yep. Once again that's waaay before my time, but like I said in another thread. Standardised cars have a place in A1.

When was the last innovative season?

[Rivelution]

When was the last innovative season?

2008 for aerodynamics, 2005 for engines imo.

[myownalias]

If we are talking innovation; it has to be 2009 when it comes to aerodynamics; the double diffuser system is ingenious and infuriating at the same time.

[Big Azza]

If we are talking innovation; it has to be 2009 when it comes to aerodynamics; the double diffuser system is ingenious and infuriating at the same time.

Right you are sir! That Jacob fella doesn't know what he's talking about!

Sorry... I don't mean it that way. I mean I disagree with Jacob.

Rats... almost at 500!

[myownalias]

If we are talking innovation; it has to be 2009 when it comes to aerodynamics; the double diffuser system is ingenious and infuriating at the same time.

Right you are sir! That Jacob fella doesn't know what he's talking about!

Sorry... I don't mean it that way. I mean I disagree with Jacob.

Don't worry mate; I knew what you meant! I can see where Jacob is coming from, the Brawn dominance did make the first half of the season a snoozefest but it's far from the most boring season ever. For me the Schumacher/Ferrari dominance years were the most boring to watch for me. The double diffuser is a genius concept to work around what the rules were intended to be, but at the same time it has created more dirty air limiting overtaking. I believe that F1 needs to take a step backwards to move forwards.

[NateDawg80126]

I would really like to see stats on each driver for their total number of overtakes on the season. I mean actual overtakes, not advancing a position through pit strategy etc., I think it would really show just how good the drivers are. I am fairly certain Hamilton would have a hefty lead over the rest of the pack in this category, say what you will about him as a driver, but he does overtake a hell of a lot.