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By racechick
#14235
[Never said they have led a blameless existance it's just that McLaren was caught and I think they should have been penalized regarding the driver's championship..[/quote]

Yes they were caught and it was a minor thing with a massive penalty.The people involved (Alonso and De la Rosa) were given a let off and are now being protected by FIA. :?
Past experience suggests that had it been Ferrari no case would have been brought. They may have had a slapped wrist and told "Dont do that again". No way would they have been persued and punished . Not a level playing field :cry:
By pussycat
#14261
just read "Ferrari to pursue legal action. Have they not caused enough harm with their lies. Good God, what do they want? Blood? JT said they are not ruling out FA and LW being thrown out of the drivers champ So does that mean they would "win" the drivers and the consructors too? What a joke! MM said today that if AF@LW were to win the drvers it would be a hollow victory But couldnt that be said about the constructors. If WW and JT removed each others noses out of each others asses we would maybe get down to some of the truth of what happened! And FA should be kicked out of F! anyway. He is as big an asshole as all the bosses of Ferrari! Sorry about the language. I am a lady honest!
By hot rodders
#14267
how can JT foresee FA and LH being thrown out given the Mad Max get out of jail free card to FA, unless of course JT has FIA information, yet to emerge. So unless Mad Max does a double cross in light of further revellations, this is a done deal.

Only thing outside Max control is the Italian Police charging FA for frigging about with Stepney leaked FIAT intellectual property via emails, doing FA for handling nicked data, thus giving Max Measley an excuse to u turn. Same does not apply to LH though. Anyway, not very likely. And, by the time this reaches a civil court in UK, the season will be history.

Hope Mclaren push the Renault button though on the dodgy CDs. Tall order, Flavio strikes me a really slippery old snake.
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By racechick
#14268
how can JT foresee FA and LH being thrown out given the Mad Max get out of jail free card to FA, unless of course JT has FIA information, yet to emerge. So unless Mad Max does a double cross in light of further revellations, this is a done deal.

Only thing outside Max control is the Italian Police charging FA for frigging about with Stepney leaked FIAT intellectual property via emails, doing FA for handling nicked data, thus giving Max Measley an excuse to u turn. Same does not apply to LH though. Anyway, not very likely. And, by the time this reaches a civil court in UK, the season will be history.

Hope Mclaren push the Renault button though on the dodgy CDs. Tall order, Flavio strikes me a really slippery old snake.


Yes would love to see that button pressed!! And a few others. Dont think Ron will push it-he knows who the FIA are batting for .Well the FIA know about the cd's and they havent bothered doing anything. Its all favours for friends, an old boys club.
By ArtHowe
#14403
That's nice, Mikey, now can you draw us a house with a bow wow... then you have to put your crayons away and go to bed, you have school in the morning.
By aboldero
#14404
i'm sorry but realistically McLaren have need thrown out of the constructors championship and fined $100 million because two of their spanish drivers are stupid enough to talk via email!!!

there is NO proof that McLaren actually tested the settings they talked about on the simulator at all.. there is NO proof that McLaren (apart from coughlan) saw the dossier..

the gas they were talking about is common knowledge in the pitlane (i used to work for bridgestone), the drivers may not have known about it, as the important thing for them is the pressure, not the air that is making it...
normally when the teams are given the tyres by bridgestone, they are inflated to 15psi with normal compressed air, and the teams then adjust the pressure to around 16-17psi depending on conditions, when the car is on track, the tyre heats up and the idea is that the pressure equalises at around 19, which is roughly ideal if the track is hotter, the pressure increases more if its cold it doesn't increase as much.
with the ferrari, the gas they use is pretty much de-humidified compressed air... nothing special... when they get the tyres, they remove as much air from it as possible, then re-fill it to around 17.5-18psi, this is because the less humid the air, the less the pressure changes with the heat of the tyre, therefore the tyre stays nearer optimum pressure whatever the track conditions.

sorry Mikep99, but having a couple of stupid drivers and one corrupt designer does not make the team dishonest of low on integrity, they sacked the designer, and it was ron dennis who informed the FIA about the emails between drivers...

RD has offered the FIA the chance to see the logs for the simulator, which would prove that they did not try the settings that FA nd PdlR were discussing, and he has also offered them the chance to inspect the design office and designs of this years car to prove that no Ferrari intellectual property have been used.. How can the FIA penalise mclaren without checking these??? if this had been in a civil or legal court the FIA would have been laughed out of the court room because the judge would have examined the evidence offered by Mclaren and found that they were telling the truth...
By Mikep99
#14428
That's nice, Mikey, now can you draw us a house with a bow wow... then you have to put your crayons away and go to bed, you have school in the morning.


OK Arthowe. Is this what you wanted? Do you like it?

Image


The truth hurts doesn’t it mate, don’t worry you will get over the shame of it all one day. :cry::cry:

It's past my bedtime I’m off to bed now.
:lol:
By Mikep99
#14431
i'm sorry but realistically McLaren have need thrown out of the constructors championship and fined $100 million because two of their spanish drivers are stupid enough to talk via email!!!

there is NO proof that McLaren actually tested the settings they talked about on the simulator at all.. there is NO proof that McLaren (apart from coughlan) saw the dossier..

the gas they were talking about is common knowledge in the pitlane (i used to work for bridgestone), the drivers may not have known about it, as the important thing for them is the pressure, not the air that is making it...
normally when the teams are given the tyres by bridgestone, they are inflated to 15psi with normal compressed air, and the teams then adjust the pressure to around 16-17psi depending on conditions, when the car is on track, the tyre heats up and the idea is that the pressure equalises at around 19, which is roughly ideal if the track is hotter, the pressure increases more if its cold it doesn't increase as much.
with the ferrari, the gas they use is pretty much de-humidified compressed air... nothing special... when they get the tyres, they remove as much air from it as possible, then re-fill it to around 17.5-18psi, this is because the less humid the air, the less the pressure changes with the heat of the tyre, therefore the tyre stays nearer optimum pressure whatever the track conditions.

sorry Mikep99, but having a couple of stupid drivers and one corrupt designer does not make the team dishonest of low on integrity, they sacked the designer, and it was ron dennis who informed the FIA about the emails between drivers...

RD has offered the FIA the chance to see the logs for the simulator, which would prove that they did not try the settings that FA nd PdlR were discussing, and he has also offered them the chance to inspect the design office and designs of this years car to prove that no Ferrari intellectual property have been used.. How can the FIA penalise mclaren without checking these??? if this had been in a civil or legal court the FIA would have been laughed out of the court room because the judge would have examined the evidence offered by Mclaren and found that they were telling the truth...



Aboldero Your living in denial Man, Take the eye patch off Mateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

There is NO proof this & there is NO proof that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What planet are you on.

It reminds me of the IF this happened & IF that happened posts you read so often.
You know the punch line don't you................ And if my Aunty had balls she would be my Uncle.


F1 is measured in millimetres & milliseconds & is the pinnacle or engineering. This being the case every millionth of a millisecond is a big deal.
Don’t try telling me that with all the information McLaren had at there disposal they could not & did not use any of it to there benefit.
Were not talking about what toilet paper Ferrari use here mate, it is very comprehensive stuff.
Like the old saying goes – two heads are better than one. In effect McLaren had two engineering teams working on there cars.

And you comment about the Civil courts. Are you sure that when you worked for Bridgestone you did not smell too much of that gas.
RD would not be that STUPID to try it……………………….. Or maybe he would ??????? Were talking about the Honourable, full of integrity leader of Mclaren here aren’t we. :shock::shock:

JT would be saying GO ON MAKE MY DAY PUNK - Its called unrefutable evidence.
:lol::lol:
By aboldero
#14432
Mikep99, McLaren have had an external company run a complete check of their computer systems for any ferrari intelectual property, and NONE was found.

They have also Invited the FIA to inspect their data for their simulation rigs, which would tell them if the steeings were tried out, and to inspect their designs for the current F1 car, which again would show if any ferrari intellectual property were used.. the FIA have turned down the offer, because they know there would bo no point, as the info was not used by McLaren.

The gas is in effect de-humidified air... nothing illegal or dangerous, and something Bridgestone have discussed with most of the teams.
By aboldero
#14434
here is a direct quote from the original FIA hearing from july...

"Secondly, and I hope this will dispose of any residual point that Mr Lowe’s result can be thought not to cover. We have made an open offer, which stands as of today and will stand hereafter. It is an open offer to the FIA’s Technical Staff to come to McLaren and inspect anything that they want to inspect that might help in persuading you that we have not used any Ferrari technical information in our car. That offer has not been acted upon, but remains and will continued to remain hereafter."

now please tell me that McLaren are trying to hid info from the FIA...

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Re ... 07-01.html
By aboldero
#14439
another quote - page 38 of june enquiry

"When Angelo Santini, an ex-Ferrari aerodynamicist, stole confidential information, apparently on a CD-Rom containing data files and technical drawings and took them to Toyota, resulting in his conviction with another for industrial espionage, no charge was brought against Toyota, despite the apparent similarities between the Toyota 2003 car and the Ferrari 2002 car. It is not my role today to ask why no charge was brought against Toyota; but you discriminate against McLaren if you find us liable in circumstances where you did not even charge Toyota – circumstances where you had not just allegations, not just limited admissions, but a criminal conviction."

previous quote from page 23..

come on guys... can you not see that the only differences are that McLaren were in contention for the world championship.. Toyota weren't.. and that there is clear evidence (visual to the untrained eye) of the use of ferrari designs by toyota, and NO evidence of any sort to the use of ferrari designs by mclaren...
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By Selcouth_Feline
#14464
Mikep99, McLaren have had an external company run a complete check of their computer systems for any ferrari intelectual property, and NONE was found.

.


Isn't part of the problem that it is too easy to hide Ferrari IP on a car. For example, they might have noted Ferrari's weight distribution and want to try it on their own car, so they start a test programme trying out loads of different weight distributions - so the Ferrari data would have tipped them off to the change, but if they went through the rigamrole of a proper test programme, there is no way you can prove that it was the Ferrari data that tipped them off (this is a hypothetical situation BTW!)
By aboldero
#14468
the teams try different weight dist all the time during testing, its so easy to change, and its practically common knowledge in the pit lane, it's so easy to find out..

brake ballance is similar, as there's nothing really to hide, as the driver can change the ballance from corner to corner
By Mikep99
#14511
the teams try different weight dist all the time during testing, its so easy to change, and its practically common knowledge in the pit lane, it's so easy to find out..

brake ballance is similar, as there's nothing really to hide, as the driver can change the ballance from corner to corner


Aboldero, three post’s in quick succession, Boy this is eating at you isn’t it mate.
Don’t worry I understand you can’t accept the reality of it all. OH the HUMANITY !!!!!!!!! You’ll get over it.

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Have a read of this mate, the FULL evidence.
Make sure you read it all; don’t skim over the bits you don’t like.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/09/14/fia-verdict-on-mclaren-full-text/

And after all that, if you still have some IF’s and But’s all I can say to you is http://www.thepocket.com/wavs/moneypit3.wav

:lol::lol:

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