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[Fact Man]

DD, you go at it again. If what you said "it can be in communications between team members that outline a way of tackling a problem that was inspired by that new info from Ferrari" then how the hell is the FIA going to tell what is stolen info in the 08 ML car. ML people could still be stealing info from other teams and communicate it to each other without the FIA knowledge. So how do you go to prove your point.

[pit_babe]

DD, where is your proof that ML used F data to their advantage. Please show us the FIA document that says so. It's only your personal opinion but please give us more proof so we can all start supporting Ferrari!

better still ban every team except ferrari

[darwin dali]

RD's successor will have to keep an eye on emails and phone calls between his employees.

[pit_babe]

RD's successor will have to keep an eye on emails and phone calls between his employees.

I cant see RD going anywhere

[darwin dali]

Not anywhere, just home.

[pit_babe]

Not anywhere, just home.

Ron will stay you can count on it

[darwin dali]

For how long?

[pit_babe]

For how long?

Long enough to show Ferrari how to win a championship without running to Uncle max and the ferrari dominated world council.

[darwin dali]

Uh, what an idiotic statement! Who went to uncle Max right after the first race of the season? Sometimes I wonder what everybody is smoking on this board. Can't be enhancing their intellectual capacities...

[nikon133]

Totally disagree with you Darwin. At the moment we have no knowledge that Mac cars benefited from any inside design knowledge.

Welcome to the forum
So...why have McLaren been punished if it's nothing to do with inside knowledge?

Because... maybe... Ferrari has strongest influence in FIA and can force through a lot of crap no one else can..?

Let's face it, for as long as I follow F1 - good 20 years by now - Ferrari IS the dirtiest team in F1 - no contest. Exclusion of beryllium alloy from F1 engines, anyone? Or most recent 1-tyre-supplier-for-everyone stint? Loads of other crap, cheats, bending rules. You name it - Ferrari's got it in their pockets. It's a shame such lowlifes can actually make a great car.

Regarding that dude's testimony (about showing Ferrari's info to Mac's execs)... guy is obviously a low moral scum. Could he be telling lies just to save his sorrow... ? Sure can. Could he make a deal with Ferrari to save himself? His days in Mac are finished anyway. But whatever he said, simple fact that he's wife was copying Ferrari's confidential docs in PUBLIC PHOTOCOPY SHOP rather than in Mac's headquarters, behind 6 steel doors, tells me much more than his testimony.

Could he use his secret knowledge to point out at Ferrari's illegal solutions regarding floor-wing..? I bet. But I see him trying to make himself a hero and not compromise him at the same time, thus doing that in a bit more subtle way... like, saying that he has noticed something interesting on Ferrari; or, saying that his Ferrari friend mentioned something interesting while they had a beer last night after practice. Or... you choose. But walking around Mac offices with 700 pages book and then sending his wife to copy it in public shop? I mean... get real.

At the end of day, if Mac was found having any Ferrari solution on their car during first hearing, there would not be second hearing. There would not be McLarren anymore.

And what about Honda execs who were approached by both outcast engineers? Not important because they are not better than Ferrari? Puh-lease...

It's a pure political decission conducted by Ferrari's lobby in FIA governing body. I really hope Mac will fight that decision with all possible measures. A guy mentioned in other forum - Ron has more integrity than whole Italy. I'd limit that thought to ...than whole Ferrari.

[pit_babe]

Uh, what an idiotic statement! Who went to uncle Max right after the first race of the season? Sometimes I wonder what everybody is smoking on this board. Can't be enhancing their intellectual capacities...

Yep cos ferrari were cheating,and what was done? , exactly what we expected, nothing. still neither team is very popular where i work so I am rapidly losing interest.

[Fact Man]

Totally disagree with you Darwin. At the moment we have no knowledge that Mac cars benefited from any inside design knowledge.

Welcome to the forum
So...why have McLaren been punished if it's nothing to do with inside knowledge?

Because... maybe... Ferrari has strongest influence in FIA and can force through a lot of crap no one else can..?

Let's face it, for as long as I follow F1 - good 20 years by now - Ferrari IS the dirtiest team in F1 - no contest. Exclusion of beryllium alloy from F1 engines, anyone? Or most recent 1-tyre-supplier-for-everyone stint? Loads of other crap, cheats, bending rules. You name it - Ferrari's got it in their pockets. It's a shame such lowlifes can actually make a great car.

Regarding that dude's testimony (about showing Ferrari's info to Mac's execs)... guy is obviously a low moral scum. Could he be telling lies just to save his sorrow... ? Sure can. Could he make a deal with Ferrari to save himself? His days in Mac are finished anyway. But whatever he said, simple fact that he's wife was copying Ferrari's confidential docs in PUBLIC PHOTOCOPY SHOP rather than in Mac's headquarters, behind 6 steel doors, tells me much more than his testimony.

Could he use his secret knowledge to point out at Ferrari's illegal solutions regarding floor-wing..? I bet. But I see him trying to make himself a hero and not compromise him at the same time, thus doing that in a bit more subtle way... like, saying that he has noticed something interesting on Ferrari; or, saying that his Ferrari friend mentioned something interesting while they had a beer last night after practice. Or... you choose. But walking around Mac offices with 700 pages book and then sending his wife to copy it in public shop? I mean... get real.

At the end of day, if Mac was found having any Ferrari solution on their car during first hearing, there would not be second hearing. There would not be McLarren anymore.

And what about Honda execs who were approached by both outcast engineers? Not important because they are not better than Ferrari? Puh-lease...

It's a pure political decission conducted by Ferrari's lobby in FIA governing body. I really hope Mac will fight that decision with all possible measures. A guy mentioned in other forum - Ron has more integrity than whole Italy. I'd limit that thought to ...than whole Ferrari.

I definitely agree with you on all.

[nikon133]

Did I say redesign? Did I say modify? In order to benefit from information, there are many ways a car can be tweaked. Just, e.g., information on Ferrari's weight distribution and brake bias would have been extremely helpful to McLaren to master the Bridgestones. And even if they directly used data and modified bits and pieces or setups, etc. accordingly, I'm sure McLaren was smart enough to camouflage such usage and it would be very difficult to prove.

Ferrari has longer wheelbase. Plus, position or weight of engine/gearbox/... are not exactly the same on both cars. What good would Ferrari's weight distribution do on different car? And are we sure that weight distribution data WAS in the design book of Ferrari's car? Could Ferrari know all those info - different for each race - before the season started?

That is so far from the hard proof... like I'm far from F1 driver's seat.

[darwin dali]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 448683.ece

[bud]

Ferrari orchestrated this to perfection!

the new evidence was weak and WOULD NOT hold up in a court of Law,
i wonder if Ferrari will continue their legal proceedings inlight that if it is found during that no information was used then the FIAt will HAVE to go back on their pathetic ruling!

Nikon youre exactly right about the weight distribution and its idiotic as the Rubber they were using was brand new its not like Ferrari had a mass of past data that McLaren could go to for setup purposes, Ferrari were struggling in winter testing with the new rubber while McLaren were fast from the get go, Ferrari didnt get any pace until the final stages of winter testing! enough said!
and ultimately the setup will change for different chassis and track. Ferrari data would be useless to the MP4/22. what works on one chassis wont work on another especially when the wheel bases are different and the aero packages are different!