Then and Now (96-2012)

Celebrate over sixty years of F1 - your memories, experiences and opinions.
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Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby LRW »

Finally got to watch of of the 'year reviews' on Sky F1. Reviewing Damon Hill's winning year of 1996. At that time I had been watching F1 for about maybe 5 or 6 years. After watching, there are some very interesting things to note (I think anyway). Some I knew, but had forgotten, but some things I dont think I ever realised.

1. Its amazing how unstable the cars seem to be - the drivers really have to fight the car, all the way round the track. If modern day drivers had to cope with that, they would moan the car is a dog.
2. Back then, they could race in the rain. The rain at one of the races (think it was Nürburgring) was hammering it down, and they couldnt see the end of the car nose - but they just got on with it - no running under safety car, or Red Flags.
3. How much lapping went on - the top drivers often lapped WELL into the top 10 by the end of the race.
4. How unbelievably unreliable all the cars are. You didnt get a race without at least half the grid retiring - which obviously is what causes point 3.
5. The amount of times cars crashed into each other, or nudged each other off the track, Felipe Massa would be crying for the entire 16 races. And all without what seems very few penalties! All put down to good old 'racing incidents'
6. The safety car was a Renault Clio (well in San Marino it was)..... :rofl: (aah - in Spa its a Merc AMG)
7. Eddie Jordan looks weird without a goatee.
8. Spare car. Should that be brought back?
9. When they Red Flagged the Australian race after Martin Brundles crash, they restarted the race. From the original starting line-up. This mean Damon got a do-over on his original awful start. Very unfair. Glad they dont do that anymore.
10. Man the cars seem sooooo wide and soooo low. And kinda sexy.
11. The cars give off a lot of oil off. The white of the williams cars are BROWN by the end of the races.
12. Didnt remember how tight that year was for Hill - right to the last race at Suzuka.
13. McLarens were still the sexiest cars on the track.....

I think the point I'm trying to make with all the above - I forgot how exciting F1 used to be, and as much as I still love it, its certainly lost some of its excitement. Everything seems so raw, and basic - even the car design.

Id love to see some modern day drivers race back then - Hamilton, Button, Vettel - I just dont know if they would of cut the mustard.

Anyway - your thoughts? If you have any........

(yes, I know, I should find something better to do on a Friday night!)
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby myownalias »

I hadn't forgotten; I have been an advocate for returning to those days, I enjoyed racing much more back then, there was no need for DRS, KERS or HSBC... just racing!
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby LewEngBridewell »

Things have moved on, but I still love F1. :cloud9:
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby Jabberwocky »

As an engineer I feel I have grown up with the sport. I think if you tried to explain to me when I was 6 what a blown diffuser was I would get bored. Nowvit intreages me
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby Fluffy »

I totally agree with the rain aspects of your post, remember Suzuka 1994? That was far worse than Malaysia and they still raced, no safety car, there was a red flag but that was down to Brundle crashing into a marshal and breaking his legs. Racing was more racing and less crying about being nudged, overtaking was hard though.
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby LewEngBridewell »

Fluffy wrote:I totally agree with the rain aspects of your post, remember Suzuka 1994? That was far worse than Malaysia and they still raced, no safety car, there was a red flag but that was down to Brundle crashing into a marshal and breaking his legs. Racing was more racing and less crying about being nudged, overtaking was hard though.


If I remember correctly, weren't there measures taken back then to "improve the spectacle"? The early 1990's? It seems to be an ever-ongoing quest.
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby Fluffy »

I think a lot of the overtaking problems are down to the track design, I mean why the hell are we still going to the Hungaroring?
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby LazorRamone »

Yesterday evening I watched first few laps from British GP in 1993, it was a drama even I had watched it couple of times before. Senna, Prost and Schumacher entertained me more in 30 minutes than all the drivers in 2010.

It was rainy in Donington 1993 and it is one the best GP ever, rain always made a great show of almost any GP in the past.

F1 has changed a lot. In 2011 I stopped watching it, I didnt enjoy it :(
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby zurich_allan »

LazorRamone wrote:Yesterday evening I watched first few laps from British GP in 1993, it was a drama even I had watched it couple of times before. Senna, Prost and Schumacher entertained me more in 30 minutes than all the drivers in 2010.

It was rainy in Donington 1993 and it is one the best GP ever, rain always made a great show of almost any GP in the past.

F1 has changed a lot. In 2011 I stopped watching it, I didnt enjoy it :(


Of course the thing with Donington (the European GP that year, not the British GP) is that it's not a great example. 1993 was a transitional year as they'd just made the tyres smaller and the wings narrower, but they hadn't really imposed strict rules in a lot of other areas so there were massive differences up and down the field. At Donington in particular (because wet weather exagerates the differences in the particular areas in question) some cars had active suspension, some didn't. Some cars had traction control, some didn't. I'm a big fan of Senna's, and he did an amazing job that weekend, really displaying his skills, but too much is made of it given that on his car he had many toys that were a big advantage in the rain that most other (with the exception of the Williams and possibly the Benettons) cars didn't.

In general, yes, I've got all of the 'year in review' tapes from the 80's and 90's and I love watching the raw racing on much more natural tracks (both in design and in surroundings) from that era. My favourite seasons for watching pure driving are I think 1985 / 86, 1991 - 1993 and 1997-1999.
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby andrew »

Fluffy wrote:I think a lot of the overtaking problems are down to the track design, I mean why the hell are we still going to the Hungaroring?


Track design is only a problem at somewhere that is tight and twisty. It is the cars that are the main problem but blaming the tracks is an easy option.
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby LazorRamone »

zurich_allan wrote:
LazorRamone wrote:Yesterday evening I watched first few laps from British GP in 1993, it was a drama even I had watched it couple of times before. Senna, Prost and Schumacher entertained me more in 30 minutes than all the drivers in 2010.

It was rainy in Donington 1993 and it is one the best GP ever, rain always made a great show of almost any GP in the past.

F1 has changed a lot. In 2011 I stopped watching it, I didnt enjoy it :(


Of course the thing with Donington (the European GP that year, not the British GP) is that it's not a great example. 1993 was a transitional year as they'd just made the tyres smaller and the wings narrower, but they hadn't really imposed strict rules in a lot of other areas so there were massive differences up and down the field. At Donington in particular (because wet weather exagerates the differences in the particular areas in question) some cars had active suspension, some didn't. Some cars had traction control, some didn't. I'm a big fan of Senna's, and he did an amazing job that weekend, really displaying his skills, but too much is made of it given that on his car he had many toys that were a big advantage in the rain that most other (with the exception of the Williams and possibly the Benettons) cars didn't.

In general, yes, I've got all of the 'year in review' tapes from the 80's and 90's and I love watching the raw racing on much more natural tracks (both in design and in surroundings) from that era. My favourite seasons for watching pure driving are I think 1985 / 86, 1991 - 1993 and 1997-1999.


With British GP I meant Silverstone :) The struggle between Prost and Senna and then Senna and Schumacher is pretty exciting.

Eighties were amazing. I like everything from late 60s when the wings were introduced.
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby LewEngBridewell »

andrew wrote:
Fluffy wrote:I think a lot of the overtaking problems are down to the track design, I mean why the hell are we still going to the Hungaroring?


Track design is only a problem at somewhere that is tight and twisty. It is the cars that are the main problem but blaming the tracks is an easy option.


There is far worse than the Hungaroring at the moment! Slating the Hungaroring is now an outdated operation, especially when you consider the fact that we have not had a dull race there since about 2004! In my opinion anyway! Since then, I've always anjoyed the racing at the Hungaroring.

Hungaroring is not a problem. The problem circuits for me are Valencia, Barcelona and Abu Dhabi.
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby australia99 »

ah 1996. The Men were men and the boys raced Indycars.

first lap Red flag, i agree with this. I'm sick and tired of a first lap crash leading to 4 laps of safety car.

leading to my next point. OVERUSE of the safety car.

racing in the rain. OH MY GOD YES! Indycars and Nascar dont race in the rain, is this where we are heading? Some great drives have occurred in the rain.

the spare car. The problem with this was Ferrari treated the spare car as a qualifying car in the early 00's. bring it back, but regulate it so it can't be used this way again.

more aggressive racing! i miss that. Lewis would have fitted in the 90's quite well.
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Re: Then and Now (96-2012)

Postby geetface9 »

andrew wrote:
Fluffy wrote:I think a lot of the overtaking problems are down to the track design, I mean why the hell are we still going to the Hungaroring?


Track design is only a problem at somewhere that is tight and twisty. It is the cars that are the main problem but blaming the tracks is an easy option.


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