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Celebrate over sixty years of F1 - your memories, experiences and opinions.
#266151
This is something that has always fascinated me about F1. The way sometimes the fastest car/driver package doesnt always win the Championship.

Take 2005 for instance and Kimi Raikkonen in the McLaren. In spite of winning 7 races, driving the car superbly, and the car itself being comfortably faster than its nearest competitor Renault Kimi was comfortably denied by Alonso. At Imola, Europe and Germany the car broke with Kimi leading handing the victory to his immediate competitor. At France, Britain and Italy Raikkonen was easily fastest but his race was hugely compromised by 10 place grid penalties whilst Alonso managed 1 win and 2 second places. And at Turkey and Spa Kimi was comfortably leading McLaren 1-2s when twice his teammate managed to throw it off the road with less than 3 laps to go granting Alonso extra points to help him along in his Championship cause.

No offence to Alonso who maximised his cars potential at almost every race in 2005 by Kimi was well robbed from where I saw it.
#266155
Going a bit further back and a look at 1987 it seems incredible that Mansell could not triumph in the Williams Honda. In spite of winning 6 races to eventual champion Piquets 3. And outracing him in classic fashion at France, Britain, Austria and Mexico still Mansell was denied. This was because of incredible bad luck with reliability and misadventure. At Brazil ticker tape thrown by fans got sucked into the airbox. At Spa Senna ran him off the road. Unreliability robbed him at Monaco, Detroit, Germany and Hungary when he was leading with Piquet being a major beneificiary. Then at Japan a nasty crash in practice put him out of the last 2 races which if he had won both would have resulted in being Champion irrespective of whatever Piquet managed.

Very unlucky.
#266156
Finally 1988 and Senna vs Prost. Much is made of Senna's first WDC but the fact is that Prost outscored him by 11 points but is denied the Championship because of the Best 11 scoring format in place at the time. If we were racing by todays system then Prost would have profitted from the mistakes Senna brought on himself by DNFing from certain wins at Monaco and Monza. I wonder how history and Senna's place in the pantheon might have panned out if this had been the case. Would it have been Prost driven out of the McLaren team if he'd actually won both in 88 & 89? Who knows. But its always seemed to me to be very unlucky for a guy to score a whole batch more points and still lose the Championship. And I think 1988 was the only time that has occurred.
#266231
Finally 1988 and Senna vs Prost. Much is made of Senna's first WDC but the fact is that Prost outscored him by 11 points but is denied the Championship because of the Best 11 scoring format in place at the time. If we were racing by todays system then Prost would have profitted from the mistakes Senna brought on himself by DNFing from certain wins at Monaco and Monza. I wonder how history and Senna's place in the pantheon might have panned out if this had been the case. Would it have been Prost driven out of the McLaren team if he'd actually won both in 88 & 89? Who knows. But its always seemed to me to be very unlucky for a guy to score a whole batch more points and still lose the Championship. And I think 1988 was the only time that has occurred.


Bucket load of Senna fans wont like it but its true.

Adding to the Prost theme, he lost a title to Niki Lauda by 0.5 of a point, and would have won the championship had he not about to have been overtaken by...................Ayrton Senna :rofl: .

4 titles is plenty though eh?
#266239
Kimi was robbed in 05, MP4-20 was Neweys last McLaren masterpiece!

89 was bs too, After he and Prost tangled in japan, Prost happy to get out the car, Senna went on to win the race then was DQ after the race by the influence of the cheating Frenchmen Balestre!
#266250
Hamilton in 2007, Lewis was on Inters way too long in the Chinese GP and got in the gravel at the pit entrance and was stuck there. Not sure if it was driver or team that decided to stay out on inters longer but that to me cost Lewis the title in his first year in F1. But I was happy to see Kimi win the title that year so it worked out okay for me.
#266252
Kimi was robbed in 05, MP4-20 was Neweys last McLaren masterpiece!

89 was bs too, After he and Prost tangled in japan, Prost happy to get out the car, Senna went on to win the race then was DQ after the race by the influence of the cheating Frenchmen Balestre!


Interestingly I read recently that Prosts car suffered absolutely no damage in the 89 crash and so since he was not stuck in the gravel pit he could have easily kept going and pootled around for the win, irrespective of Senna's comeback drive.

A couple of more points about 89: Sennas chance was only there cause of the Best 11 system in place, on a straight points count he was already miles behind by the time of Suzuka; but more importantly the machinations orchestrated by Balestre were utterly redundant once Senna nurfed Brundle in rain on the Adelaide streets a week later.

All in all 89 was a very sorry affair for the sport that all those involved brought upon themselves, and changed precisely nothing
#266253
Hamilton in 2007, Lewis was on Inters way too long in the Chinese GP and got in the gravel at the pit entrance and was stuck there. Not sure if it was driver or team that decided to stay out on inters longer but that to me cost Lewis the title in his first year in F1. But I was happy to see Kimi win the title that year so it worked out okay for me.


That tyre decision certainly cost Lewis the 2007 Championship. Strikingly similar to Mansell in Adelaide 86 when Williams opted not to have a tyre stop and then they tyre delaminated on the back straight. In both cases having the necessary tyre stop would have denied the driver the chance of the win but would surely have netted the points needed for the Drivers Championship.

How much input the drivers had in making those calls is an interesting point to debate, but probably easier to conclude that they win as a team and they lose as a team.
#266994
2007 was Lewis if not for the stupid McLaren call on torn SLICKS on a WET track.

2010 was Lewis if not for a stupid TYRE failure 1 lap from the end in Spain!

2009 was also a very unlucky result for F1 in general, the only WDC which was as fake as a Louis Vuitton made in China.
#266998
2007 was Lewis if not for the stupid McLaren call on torn SLICKS on a WET track.

2010 was Lewis if not for a stupid TYRE failure 1 lap from the end in Spain!

2009 was also a very unlucky result for F1 in general, the only WDC which was as fake as a Louis Vuitton made in China.


Slicks in 2007? :wink:
#267011
2007 was Lewis if not for the stupid McLaren call on torn SLICKS on a WET track.

2010 was Lewis if not for a stupid TYRE failure 1 lap from the end in Spain!

2009 was also a very unlucky result for F1 in general, the only WDC which was as fake as a Louis Vuitton made in China.


2007 was Lewis' mistake in Shanghai

2010 was Lewis' mistakes in Monza and Singapore

2009 = Brawn deserved it.

:wink:

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