Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by sagi58 »

What would be the point of arguing anything, when you've appointed yourself judge, jury and executioner?

The moment I came to this forum and admitted that I was a Ferrari fan, I was put on the back foot.
It didn't help that I am a friend of spanky's and that the MiaScuderia Lounge had recently been created.

If I'd been a Hamilton fan, regardless of what I do or don't know about F1, there would have been a huge
difference in how anything I post is viewed. The level of tolerance for my admitted lack of knowledge
would have been much higher, because I was on the "right" side of the track.

Yet, I stick around. And, I try to participate. I try to show that there are two sides to any comment being
posted as an undisputable truth. And for what? To be ridiculed for having a different opinion. For not
seeing the light as it's being shoved down my throat. It's obvious any fan worth their salt will defend their
hero; yet, I'm not allowed to do that? Just because I don't support Hamilton?

When do I try to walk away, as I've been advised to by numerous other members, I have to read ridiculous
comments and half quotes that really aren't what I said. I have to read post after post that uses derogatory
names, childish accusations of how I've run off or thinly-veiled insults about my intelligence.

The beauty of it all is that what you accuse me of, is exactly what you are doing.
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by CookinFlat6 »

Well said WB, straight to the point and much less words than I need to say the same.

Its the world we live in today and thats why its going up the spout most places - people are trained to accept things they know are wrong for the sake of keeping the status quo or not upsetting someone or the other, bite your tongue, etc - there is no belief in integrity or social laws that worked pretty well for centuries and still works in cultures that we think are old and somwhat lesser because they dont have the laws that we have to write down so people do the right thing.
For example you got a village somewhere, and some old guy is a bit of a perve and is on the road to upsetting youngsters. Theres no written law that states what he can get away with but they whole village know whats what and he is outcasted, the social laws - shame, ridicule etc all work for a reason. Now we got some wriiten law and the guy goes to court and says it was a day after her legal birthday and his lawyer gets him off, in the village, he would have been strung up by his goonies becaos a day dont matter in the scheme of things

Now we have a tv kids presenter who molests kids for decades, whislt climbing the BBCs sofas to applause. 'Dont rock the boat' or 'its ok, its what old guys do', or even 'the kid gets a benefit, gets the attention of a tv STAR' etc etc - (now people actually came out and said all these things in defence of the :censored: '
And no realises its all the same, starts with the small details noone takes care of for fear of 'rocking the boat' or 'upseting someone who wont like it'
Always some reason, but why? so someone goes to jail for abusing someone and he comes out of jail and we gotta be nice to him cos hes done his time and its acceptable?
Someone has views and opinions and lazy assumptions that we all know from history only leads in 1 direction, and if we are unlucky enough to alow 1 person to continue who goes all the way??? well we know what will eventually happen, what we will all ended up in - war

If we let idiots and half baked bigots to peddle their stuff and we say 'its ok' he/shes just an idiot, everyone knows' then its always going the same way. And the most important thing is not to say - oh they are being bigotted about those people, so its not my problem, I have my own worries. Well it doesnt matter who they are been unfair on or subtly discriminating against because history tells us that if they are allowed to continue then sooner or later a really cynical person will bump the idiots out the way and use the platform to do things that ends up bad for almost everyone from everywhere meaning everyone will have to get together at some point to stop it.

Ignorance is one the worst and most insidious deseases out there and when combined with lazy people who are willing to say things that dont make sense, not good at all

fkn useless :censored:
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by myownalias »

What's Burning? wrote:I guess Cookin' the point is that a lot of people feel that your way is abrasive or off putting but are willing to look the "other" side. :confused: I don't see Sagi here arguing her point because there's nothing to argue, it's pretty plain sight what she does and how she does it. But for some odd reason it's you that's singled out as abrasive or condescending. It's never her even though 4/5th of the posts here are in breach of:

* Posts intended to flame and/or provoke users for a reaction, regardless of subtlety.

If we strictly followed this rule, everyone would have been banned and there would be no forum.

What's Burning? wrote:So I as the community as a whole, why are we addressing this as if it's the fault of only the guy that's sane in this situation? It's a bit comical if you ask me and perhaps the right approach should be to curtail people from endlessly repeating garbage they can't justify simply to not admit that they're wrong or too ignorant to understand that they're wrong in the first place.

I contend that as long as someone is allowed to repeatedly spit out senseless drivel and we as a community are not willing to police/control that, then someone that chooses to eddress the repeatedly spit out senseless drivel has to also be tolerated. I may be in the minority on this pov, but I certainly am not wrong in having said pov.

What's wrong with posting "I believe that you are incorrect, but you have the right to your opinion", then maybe we wouldn't have the constant circular arguments that go absolutely nowhere? Without the insulting posts from members, then maybe that would have been the end of it. I am not claiming that Cookin is the sole person at fault, I responded to his post, hence why he was the subject matter. What I wrote applies to everyone on this forum who chooses to pursue an aggressive, attacking, condescending style of reply. Personally, I get sick of reading through page after page or drivel and circular arguments, it spoils the whole experience of posting for me, and I guess given the exodus from this board, many others feel this way, sometimes it's best to say nothing at all!
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by What's Burning? »

sagi58 wrote:What would be the point of arguing anything, when you've appointed yourself judge, jury and executioner?

The moment I came to this forum and admitted that I was a Ferrari fan, I was put on the back foot.
It didn't help that I am a friend of spanky's and that the MiaScuderia Lounge had recently been created.

If I'd been a Hamilton fan, regardless of what I do or don't know about F1, there would have been a huge
difference in how anything I post is viewed. The level of tolerance for my admitted lack of knowledge
would have been much higher, because I was on the "right" side of the track.

Yet, I stick around. And, I try to participate. I try to show that there are two sides to any comment being
posted as an undisputable truth. And for what? To be ridiculed for having a different opinion. For not
seeing the light as it's being shoved down my throat. It's obvious any fan worth their salt will defend their
hero; yet, I'm not allowed to do that? Just because I don't support Hamilton?

When do I try to walk away, as I've been advised to by numerous other members, I have to read ridiculous
comments and half quotes that really aren't what I said. I have to read post after post that uses derogatory
names, childish accusations of how I've run off or thinly-veiled insults about my intelligence.

The beauty of it all is that what you accuse me of, is exactly what you are doing.


That is one warped and self important view of the world you've got there. There are lot of Ferrari fans here, so why is it only you? Perhaps because your posts tend to be vitriolic in nature, perhaps because you go out of your way to rain on people's parades and perhaps your post hint at a distinct bitter nature that you would go out of your way to bad mouth a driver's girlfriend and then have the audacity to deny you ever said anything as if it's not written on the forum somewhere.

What's Burning? wrote:Something kept niggling me yesterday... I knew I'd read it but wasn't sure where the source originated from, so a little quick handy dandy search today and low and behold... it was Sagi that would bad mouth a girlfriend of an F1 driver. I mean, I wouldn't dare speculate, but I do wonder if it has something to do with her opinion Lewis Hamilton. :hehe: Yes ladies and gentlemen, the internet knows no bounds. :rolleyes:
sagi58 wrote:
LRW wrote:
sagi58 wrote:
LRW wrote:
sagi58 wrote:
LiamCatterson wrote:Heard Lewis is going to pop the question to Nicole on New Year....Seriously, this is killing him

I'm sorry to say this RC; but, if he does, Hamilton will have dropped to a new low!

Whatever! Wish him the best, which is not what he's getting with her!!


Id be interested to know how you've come to that conclusion...?

Observation. And, feminine instinct! Can't beat that!! :D


Observation how exactly? Gossip magazines? Her 'onscreen' personality? Feminine instinct = jumping to conclusions to meet your own assumptions.

I think it's typical female jealousy to be honest.

by sagi58 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:34 am
I wouldn't waste my money on gossip magazine nor would I waste my time watching her "onscreen"!
Too bad you've jumped to your own conclusions as to what I based my opinion on, eh?

But, to humour you, I'll share, ok? I did not like the premise of the P.u.s.s.y Cat Dolls because it was
a blatant misuse of femininity to sell records. The group was little more than a flash in the pan and
although she has made a name for herself selling umpalumpa in commercials for shampoo and misusing her
own beauty, Ms.Scherzinger dropped the ball on being a good role model for young girls/women.

As for "typical female jealousy", suffice it to say that I don't like that women in the media don't always
appreciate how much influence they have over our young nor do they seem to recognize the fact that
they can be successful without selling themselves.

Personally, I believe Ms. Scherzinger is basically insecure and seems to need someone/something outside
herself to have an identity. Perfect example: Lewis Hamilton!

You don't have to agree with my opinion; but, I doubt you'd be able to change it! :wavey:


So, no I'm not doing the same thing sweetie. :wavey: Have an nice life.
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by CookinFlat6 »

myownalias wrote:What's wrong with posting "I believe that you are incorrect, but you have the right to your opinion", then maybe we wouldn't have the constant circular arguments that go absolutely nowhere? Without the insulting posts from members, then maybe that would have been the end of it. I am not claiming that Cookin is the sole person at fault, I responded to his post, hence why he was the subject matter. What I wrote applies to everyone on this forum who chooses to pursue an aggressive, attacking, condescending style of reply. Personally, I get sick of reading through page after page or drivel and circular arguments, it spoils the whole experience of posting for me, and I guess given the exodus from this board, many others feel this way, sometimes it's best to say nothing at all!


So when someone follows you around from thread to thread raising inane half baked baiting and ignorant objections in place of any type of evolution of truth, then someone keeps saying "I believe that you are incorrect, but you have the right to your opinion"
Person A - Hamilton set the fastest lap all season
Person B - It wasnt the fastest lap because he had the fastest car and no one was allowed to drive fast
Person A - "I believe that you are incorrect, but you have the right to your opinion"
Person B - Why am I not allowed to have an opinion, you are rubbishing my opinion, I dont know what fastest lap means but hamilton is just lucky to have had an easy ride
Person A - "I believe that you are incorrect, but you have the right to your opinion"
Person B - You rubbish the opinion of others who dont agree with you, Why cant you just respect my opinion
Person B - I am leaving this place becasue of the abuse
Person B - Did you hear me? I said Im leaving
A year later
Person B - now Im really leaving, watch
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by CookinFlat6 »

What's Burning? wrote:
sagi58 wrote:Personally, I believe Ms. Scherzinger is basically insecure and seems to need someone/something outside
herself to have an identity. Perfect example: Lewis Hamilton!

You don't have to agree with my opinion; but, I doubt you'd be able to change it! :wavey:


love the wavey smiley at the end - we dont have to agree - but Ill never allow us to agree - and have a wave as I have been so clever and subtle

its like the worse type of soap opera - the one thats not even funny or have a point
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by myownalias »

C'mon now Cookin, that's taking it to extremes, some things are just so out there in left field that it deserves no response. My point is that these pointless circular arguments just serve to put others off reading the rest of, and contributing to the thread. Clearly facts can not be disputed, and if people think that Hamilton is not fastest because he has the fastest car, then what can you do? bashing your head against the wall will just give you brain damage, not change a view.
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by CookinFlat6 »

Yeah I hear you. Ill just say a couple of last things

Lewis 'irritatees' have something in common that has been apparent since 2007. And at first most of his fans were new to f1 and not that knowledgeable or even articulate mostly but had a feel for what whas happening. And they were given a rough time by the established F1 community. However amongst this general pilloring was always a hard core who would never ever be won over, and very soon the complexion of his fans changed and became a lot more formidable as he proved himslef. and the detractors changed a little but the hard core attitude of ignorance and the 'whipping boy' and the lynch mob mentality especially from those who had a great fear of seeing their heros receive a royal spanking remains - although most F1 folk are now ok with him, like he is almost any other driver that maybe everyone should be just slightly harder on than others
And the void has been filled by a core of pig ugly, ignorant and mostly stupid redneck types. He will never ever be any good or deserve to be there for these. The thing is for the HDL members who have been around since the days of fighting intelligent but misguided pseudo bigots who at least were smart enough to temper it in the face of the factual evidence of his brilliance. They have now cheated us by going silent, and we are left with the ones who think they are the first to appear with the lower end of the repertoire of 'indignation'
we cant be blamed for wanting to get medieval on their bottoms :hehe:

Joking aside all this stuff about people leaving forums is old hat now, the biggest wave of that was a few years ago, there is lots of research out there pointing to the facts. The internet is going through a third distinct phases, before we only had forums and BBs, FB and Twitter have grown from nothing into hugely capitalized businesses in a matter of years - you dont think they capitalised on an early social phenomena and found a way to offer more? Dont beat yourself up about people leaving, people are always coming and going but the good old days of many active posters is long gone because they have a whole new, and more precisely targeted spaces to contribute in.
And the other facts that might interest you is that in almost every single forum out there something like 8% of the possible contributors are responsible for 80% of the output, and they always move on and then the place always changes and evolves and there are always b!tches on the sidelines whose only contribution is to b!tch about others

Best thing to say to the moaners is to point out that the only way to change things for the better is to come off the sidelines and maybe try and add their own flavour - becaos at the end of the day those contributing will never give half a sh!t about a moaner who has nothing else to offer

You used to run a bar - you dont change the thursday music from guitar to Celine Dion because some mousy shy fat birds want it, just like you dont really complain when the guys you are serving drinks to start talking loudly if they are a bit drunk as long as they respect the rules and dont start smashing the place up :hehe:
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by 1Lemon »

myownalias wrote:C'mon now Cookin, that's taking it to extremes, some things are just so out there in left field that it deserves no response. My point is that these pointless circular arguments just serve to put others off reading the rest of, and contributing to the thread. Clearly facts can not be disputed, and if people think that Hamilton is not fastest because he has the fastest car, then what can you do? bashing your head against the wall will just give you brain damage, not change a view.

Fun fact, I've found myself posting less to the forum as all my posts just get swallowed up by the never ending stream of argument diahorrea.
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by myownalias »

CookinFlat6 wrote:You used to run a bar - you dont change the thursday music from guitar to Celine Dion because some mousy shy fat birds want it, just like you dont really complain when the guys you are serving drinks to start talking loudly if they are a bit drunk as long as they respect the rules and dont start smashing the place up :hehe:

I understand Internet demographics and the current trends, it's kinda what I do for a living, so I understand and agree with what your saying, but at the same time, I know a lot of former members left the forum, not because they did not want to be part of the forum, but because of the constant infighting between members. We also see plenty of people come visit the forum regularly, but never sign up; I'm speculating here, but seeing constant arguments would definitely put me off joining, if I had saw this forum now, I would not join, it was the rich F1 discussion and very little bulls*** that made me sign up for Forumula1.com five years ago.

Forums always had a natural gain and loss, members leave for various reasons, or simply forget their password or even the forum URL, the issue now is that there are next to no new members joining for anything more than spamming reasons, I think CigarGuy was the last member to join and actually contribute.

I just want to pick up on your last statement about abiding by the rules, a number of users of this forum break the forum rules regularly and as a whole we try to be lenient, we understand tensions can run high, but when it becomes such a problem that it spans multiple threads, as moderators we have to act, we tend to discuss events behind the scenes, it's not often a specific moderator takes unilateral action, unless the offense is so bad that it's a clear breach of the rules.

Members of the mod team often work behind the scenes via PM to defuse issues on the board, but if it continues, action will be taken, I see moderators as guides instead of law enforcement. You have shown me respect by calmly expressing your view, which I have accepted, all I ask is that you and others do the same regardless of their view, however naive or misguided sometimes, we should be able to act like adults and walk away from the fight when there is no winning!

1Lemon wrote:
myownalias wrote:C'mon now Cookin, that's taking it to extremes, some things are just so out there in left field that it deserves no response. My point is that these pointless circular arguments just serve to put others off reading the rest of, and contributing to the thread. Clearly facts can not be disputed, and if people think that Hamilton is not fastest because he has the fastest car, then what can you do? bashing your head against the wall will just give you brain damage, not change a view.

Fun fact, I've found myself posting less to the forum as all my posts just get swallowed up by the never ending stream of argument diahorrea.

Exactly my point, would you have joined the forum seeing the current trend?
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by racechick »

Can I echo that last paragraph Myown wrote. It's good that people talk honestly and discuss this issue, because that's the only real way problems will get resolved. It's has to come from you guys. We can stop excesses but utimately the forum is what you make it.
What saddens me is when I hear people decrying moderators for doing nothing. Again, as MYOWN says a lot s going on behind the scenes that you don't get to see and sometimes things may not be as they appear.

I would perhaps disagree with Myown regarding the historic nature of the forum and caution looking back with rose tinted glasses. I've been a member for over seven years and believe me there were arguments a plenty when I joined. As a Hamilton fan I was battered from several sides :hehe: and my driver constantly abused. But hey! I'm still here!
So Ferrari fans, do not dispair! There is no great conspiracy against any groups of supporters, these things go in cycles. All I can say is continue to give your driver or team full support and afford others the opportunity to do the same to theirs.
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by myownalias »

racechick wrote:I would perhaps disagree with Myown regarding the historic nature of the forum and caution looking back with rose tinted glasses. I've been a member for over seven years and believe me there were arguments a plenty when I joined. As a Hamilton fan I was battered from several sides :hehe: and my driver constantly abused. But hey! I'm still here!

No, I remember the heated arguments, I remember the comings and goings of members, but for every member that walked out the proverbial door, another walked in to replace them, that is not the case anymore. The Internet has always had it's keyboard warriors, those who will argue that Ferrari F1 cars are painted green, when it is clearly fuchsia. The internet has always had it's trolls and d***s, but I believe it has gotten progressively worse, it's hard to have a discussion anywhere on the Internet these days without someone coming in and posting something that will incite mayhem, it's all too easy when you can be anonymous.
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by zurich_allan »

1Lemon wrote:
myownalias wrote:C'mon now Cookin, that's taking it to extremes, some things are just so out there in left field that it deserves no response. My point is that these pointless circular arguments just serve to put others off reading the rest of, and contributing to the thread. Clearly facts can not be disputed, and if people think that Hamilton is not fastest because he has the fastest car, then what can you do? bashing your head against the wall will just give you brain damage, not change a view.

Fun fact, I've found myself posting less to the forum as all my posts just get swallowed up by the never ending stream of argument diahorrea.

Ditto. I haven't accumulated over a thousand posts on the forum through just sitting on the sidelines and throwing grenades as the perception may be currently. Much of my lack of current regular posting at the moment is simply due to having a particularly busy work/life balance currently as well as chasing after a toddler for most of my free time. Eventually I will at some point manage to get a bit more downtime... hopefully.... :)

However I do have to say that if I was to stumble upon the forum now as opposed to when I did back in 2008, I'm not all that certain I'd sign up. I don't necessarily worry about that though; as has been mentioned, forums are cyclical in terms of issues, membership, discussion points etc. and so perception of them will never be the same from month to month. It's just a personal feeling I've said before that I don't like the current tone of a lot of threads and discussions. No biggie though.
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by CookinFlat6 »

1Lemon wrote:
myownalias wrote:C'mon now Cookin, that's taking it to extremes, some things are just so out there in left field that it deserves no response. My point is that these pointless circular arguments just serve to put others off reading the rest of, and contributing to the thread. Clearly facts can not be disputed, and if people think that Hamilton is not fastest because he has the fastest car, then what can you do? bashing your head against the wall will just give you brain damage, not change a view.

Fun fact, I've found myself posting less to the forum as all my posts just get swallowed up by the never ending stream of argument diahorrea.


And you are a perfect example of those whose contributions are mostly moaning about something with very little added F1 value and therefore you posting more or less doesn't affect anyone or anything or entice lurkers off the sidelines
Posters like RC, WB, hams - those who start threads, have original and objective opinions, add F1 value to the knowledge pool - these are the fabric of social web. I joined and started posting because of RC (it's your fault RC lol), because i was compelled to reply to one if her posts. These are the members that any site can operate around a few of these rare types, with the flakes and chipped offs interchangeable and largely but sadlyi rrelevant
It's those members whoms complains or points carry significance, not the self centered sideline sat b1tchs

Would be interesting to make a chart of the ratio between members moaning about the state of the forum and how many threads they have ever stated. Who really doesn't think the shape would would show those that want more and better always are those who give least and worst
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Re: Questions to Improve Forumula1.com

Post by Jabberwocky »

It is good to see that the conversation about how arguments on here become circular and repetitive has become circular and repetitive.

Thread locked - until everyone calms down a bit.
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