Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

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vaptin
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Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by vaptin »

Hey,

Sometimes it feels like "groupthink" has sunk in on a lot of threads, e.g. it is seen that there is one opinion or way of looking at it, and therefore any views to the contrary are open to mockery and derision and instantly dismissed. I think one of the most attractive aspects of this forum, was the range of competing, contrasting view points all of which helped add to the depth and my knowledge of a topic. But recently I feel that is missing somewhat.

Also, I think we need to work harder to maintain a "polite" and respectful tone in posts, especially when disagreeing with people. I think also, that fits somewhat into "groupthink" above.

Again on a similar theme, I also think there's a problem with taking disagreements, or issues with posters outside the thread. Now naturally, as this isn't an anonymous forum, to some extent people will and should hold "identities" and reputations even here. But, I think its a really important point that every post (or at least every post in a thread) is treated on it's own terms. Just because you strongly disagreed or a poster made a very irrational post on one topic, or at a point in time, is no need to constantly thereafter dismiss all they post on the basis of the past post, I think that's equally irrational. Also, disagreements or issues are dragged up all over the place and detract from the actual topic at hand, it's more just continuing what was in the previous thread.

But these are just my opinions, I'd like to know what everyone else thinks as well? Please don't take anything up there personally, or as an insult or an attack either, its not intended that way.

I'm just trying to bring you barbarians into the light, and then we can all hold hands and skip a little :P
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by racechick »

I think you make some very good points Vaptin. I hope they are taken on board by members of our little community.
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by sagi58 »

Vaptin, you are the voice of reason!!
Thank you!! :thumbup:
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by What's Burning? »

vaptin wrote:Hey,

Sometimes it feels like "groupthink" has sunk in on a lot of threads, e.g. it is seen that there is one opinion or way of looking at it, and therefore any views to the contrary are open to mockery and derision and instantly dismissed. I think one of the most attractive aspects of this forum, was the range of . But recently I feel that is missing somewhat.

Also, I think we need to work harder to maintain a "polite" and respectful tone in posts, especially when disagreeing with people. I think also, that fits somewhat into "groupthink" above.

Again on a similar theme, I also think there's a problem with taking disagreements, or issues with posters outside the thread. Now naturally, as this isn't an anonymous forum, to some extent people will and should hold "identities" and reputations even here. But, I think its a really important point that every post (or at least every post in a thread) is treated on it's own terms. Just because you strongly disagreed or a poster made a very irrational post on one topic, or at a point in time, is no need to constantly thereafter dismiss all they post on the basis of the past post, I think that's equally irrational. Also, disagreements or issues are dragged up all over the place and detract from the actual topic at hand, it's more just continuing what was in the previous thread.

But these are just my opinions, I'd like to know what everyone else thinks as well? Please don't take anything up there personally, or as an insult or an attack either, its not intended that way.

I'm just trying to bring you barbarians into the light, and then we can all hold hands and skip a little :P

I think Vapting that your attempt is a gallant one, but unfortunately you fail to take into account that rationale does not exist. It's not about a poster making an irrational post once, it's about said posters contributing nothing other than that irrationality, and continuing to repeat it and repeat it loudly and demand that the irrationality is treated with the utmost respect and be given equal weight when making decisions.

That road leads to intelligent design being taught in schools right along side evolution.

I propose we call bat chit crazy comments out, especially when the members making said comments refuse to acknowledge their bat chit lunacy.

competing, contrasting view points all of which helped add to the depth and my knowledge of a topic

I would ask what you believe should be done in a situation where someone repeatedly insists that 5+3=12 and goes out of their way to remind you that your answer of 5+3=8 is only your opinion.

It gets rather tiring if you ask me plus it doesn't add much depth and knowledge to the forum I would think.
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by Hammer278 »

Hey Vaptin. Good post. I'd like to chip in saying that I do my level best in treating each post individually (really) and not let a previous post/thread 'hang' over my head when reading another one. However, when I see the same person(s) making stupid posts with stupid irrationality in multiple threads I do tend to make a connection in my head. Said connection being, this person is a moron. Unfortunately I can't continue filtering my bias and I find the more I try the more annoyed I get when I see another new idiocy by said member(s).

I can see how you think of 'groupthink' being a thing right now in the forum since it's sort of divided with the same people disagreeing with each other. But also the fact that it's the off season there aren't many people posting. It should liven up a lot more when the season gets underway.
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by CookinFlat6 »

Seems to me that there is one set of people who post things and opinions (sometimes funny, sometimes negative/positive) about the latest F1 topics in the media. And there is another set who post inane and pointless contradictions to each post by the first set. And as its a pointless objection can drag it out over several pages.
And its the same set who post inane, meaningless cut and paste news without any meaningful comment or opinion or contribution to the group knowledge pool beyond news that we have all read on the news sites anyway - and to top it all, the news is normally old and already discussed by the first set.

It might be best for all if those in the set with little knowledge restrict objecting and arguing to those with a similar level of knowledge or reasoning. It would be like allowing new pupils to argue every single point with teachers without a single reason beyond ""passion"" and a ""right to an opinion, even when wrong"". And then some of the other students protesting that the teachers should not argue and just accept the students ""opinion"" even though a wrong opinion based on ignorance never ever becomes correct - the other students may feel that the teachers have bias on certain subjects, however until they demonstrate a similar level of knowledge and expertise and are able to contradict the teacher from a position of meaningful objection, then its advisable to either avoid that teachers class or extract the knowledge they need out of the ""bias""

Students can have opinions and voice them, however an automatic objection posed as an opinion based on ignorance is an invitation for the teacher to practice and develop more extreme debate solutions to each point

imagine this scenario - Class 101 - engine building
Teacher - "builder A is better than builder B, because of more planning and preparation"
Student - "I am passionate about builder B, I have no knowledge but I bring a different opinion that builder A had MS developing the V6 during V8 races, and so had an unfair advanatage"
Teacher - "the regulations dont allow for V6 spec to be used in V8 spec races"
Student "I didnt say that, show me where i said that"
Teacher "here"
Student "you are making a fool of me, not because I am a fool, but because I support builder B passionately"
Teacher " :yikes: "
Student "Im entitled to my opinion"
Fellow yardstick student " :clap: you hit the nail on the head, i agree"
Teacher "did we not have the same convo each new class for the last 2 years, where you always admit I was right after 3 terms on inanity?"

New student "please stop ""schooling"" the yardsticks and entertain me instead, but I dont want stick my neck out/put my hand up in any way, and i dont want you saying things that lead to inane objections from the yardsticks. In fact lets all say nothing at all, while you try and guess what will entertain me and what doesnt upset me but when you do say it make sure you respect my opinion and hold my hand"
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by vaptin »

Racechick - We'll just have to make them came aboard, no? :twisted:

What's Burning - TBH, my opinion is, if you end up at the point of not getting anywhere etc. or the arguments just become circular, then I think it's just better to take the pragmatic approach, and let it drop, then go on to another topic (or even back to the threads original purpose etc.) I think too often, we disappear down a "rabbit hole" in threads, e.g. chasing on particular line or a single post and the discussion narrows to that ream of focus. But then, we forget that thread has many other ideas we can talk about. oh and it's vaptin, I'm from the ghetto.

Hammer - Try harder then :whip: (only joking).

Fair point on the off season though, especially with how testing is etc. it's hard to really put across many view points until we get substitutional events like race points or qualifying grid positions.

Cooking - I'm arguing more on the process, rather than the content off posts themselves. I'm not saying its wrong to disagree, and I think the purpose of a forum is more like an information share, and to get different view points on issues. Rather than be mainly about being right, and schooling others who are wrong. My post I , is mainly about the manner in which people disagree, rather than that they do so.



I also think its important to raise, that sometimes a person might not be so knowledgeable on one topic, but more so on others, and also we have to be more careful about falling into the trap where we read from posters what we are expecting from that poster, rather than what they've posted.

-----

Overall, I think tbh, on my experience of forums, trying to get people with opposite views on side, doesn't really happen? I think it's more about reconsigning the need to just, say, "agree to disagree", and you might think that, but I don't and as we've hit an impass and I've made my point as much as I can make it, better to move on to something else.
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by myownalias »

The issue I have is that it's clear that a group of members have singled out a single user. I truly wish that I could permanently enable the "foe" ignore mode for this handful of members so none of that group can see each others posts. As Vaptin has said, we should be able to "agree to disagree", but instead the forum gets ruined for everyone except the few that perpetrate the circular argumentative behavior and thinly veiled attacked on said member. It's gotten to the point where I avoid the forum, I spend less than an hour a week on here whereas I used to spend 90+ minutes a day on the forum, I have better things to do than read through all the diatribe every single day.

Maybe we could rename the forum "Same Sh*t, Different Day F1"?
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by CigarGuy »

myownalias wrote:The issue I have is that it's clear that a group of members have singled out a single user. I truly wish that I could permanently enable the "foe" ignore mode for this handful of members so none of that group can see each others posts. As Vaptin has said, we should be able to "agree to disagree", but instead the forum gets ruined for everyone except the few that perpetrate the circular argumentative behavior and thinly veiled attacked on said member. It's gotten to the point where I avoid the forum, I spend less than an hour a week on here whereas I used to spend 90+ minutes a day on the forum, I have better things to do than read through all the diatribe every single day.

Maybe we could rename the forum "Same Sh*t, Different Day F1"?


Nailed it! I, however, CAN enable the ignore feature....
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by CookinFlat6 »

Ok lets assume each of those members is an adult, surely, instead of enabling the foe/ignore function, you could ask each member to NOT RESPOND in the first place EVER to any post by said member

That would work better than expecting a member not to respond to the constant objection or contrarian yet baseless response to almost every post

i.e. nip the familiar pattern in the bud before it starts

Member A - says something
Member B - says nothing at all

Thereby voiding the familiar pattern of objection-clarification-new objection-clarification-30 pages later - I have little knowledge how am I meant to know anything or silent withdrawal only after the strategy group vote

Its a basic human right to participate in conflicts, and when it comes looking for you, then its unfair to ask a few people to deprive the person willing to keep bringing it. :hehe:

or put another way, if its always the same person who stops enjoying it, then why not ask that person to avoid instigating it
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by What's Burning? »

Yeah, that's the problem everyone else, not the single user that is so hurt she goes out of her way to piss on everyone's cheerios daily. But she's singled out. :rolleyes:

This is getting pathetic now.
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by CookinFlat6 »

while we wait for more Mclaren news, and whilst we ar on the subject, lets have a closer look at a recent example of opinion trumps fact

RC posts som interesting news ABOUT F1 - current, and I hadnt seen it yet
racechick wrote:Danica has denied any interest in driving in F1 when Haas, the team she currentky drives for, joins the grid.

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/da ... scom:speed


So I read this and give my opinion, no answers required, no clarification needed, its just my opinion sent into global consciousness for people to laugh at, ignore, agree with o dsagree with. However what is not needed is another raising an objection to what I said with the only qualification being an insincere, contradictory, inane, meaningless contradiction

CookinFlat6 wrote:Ouch!!!

Thats gotta be the harshest indictment of F1 ever, when a Nascar driver who has yet to be regarded above average even in Nascar declares she couldnt be paid to join F1

Nascar drivers are boycotting F1 :yikes:


So job done, lets move on, hold on whats this????????

Ah the post by Rc is being expanded upon, a meaningful contribution that is sincere, and is for anyone who missed reading the article where she says she wont leave the USA. Ah good its not an objection and is based on deep knowledge of Danica.

sagi58 wrote:
racechick wrote:Danica has denied any interest in driving in F1 when Haas, the team she currently drives for, joins the grid.

She says she wouldn't want to leave the U.S.of A.; but, it also sounds like family and friends are more important to her than travelling all over the world.


Alls well that ends well!!!!! Just imagine I was a nice guy really and had never been rude about meaningless objections, then a post like that from someone might have been addressed to me with the aim of adding a spoiler on one opinion with another that is meaningless. This would not result in anything that helps expand our knowledge
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by vaptin »

Ah, it was all going so well . . .

Actually, I intentionally kept my posts clear of referring to any individual actions or incidents. I was trying to look at the process, or principles behind things, otherwise things then just get hot headed, or about a clash of personal egos or previous "bad blood" interfering with the situation. I suggest try not to think about poster X (if you are), my post is about how would you react in situation A (which involves posting on a forum in particular disagreements) regardless of if it involves poster X,Y or Z.

I also just want to add, you can't change another person or someone else behaviour per say, it's really more about trying to change how you act and interact with them. My posts in this thread, isn't actually about what other people are doing, it's more about just checking in on what you are doing, as I was feeling a "raincheck" so to speak was needed.

Obviously I can't control what any of you do (yet. . .), naturally I'm stating my opinion
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by CookinFlat6 »

We need more people posting well thought out opinions on each new bit o info about F1 as it comes in. Instead of people posting meaningless objections to other posters we need original opinions. If those are ""wrong"2 or based on incomplete info, then they member maybe gently steered to the missing info. This is a natural functioning forum. It shouldnt b a mechanism for raining on th parade of others who may have said hurtful things about your """team"" in the past

Theres a lot to be said for the evolved F1 discussion spaces based on articles. Someone writes an article about the latest F1 news as it happens, and others can discuss that particular news and exchange ideas and opinions. This compartmentalises the discussion because its obvious when some is just there to raise inane objections aimed at other members that they are butt sore from over previous discussions.

Also it might be worth reminding all that its ok to criticize and pick on people/teams in F1, but not fellow members. Therefore someone ripping into your favourite ""team" or ""driver"" should not be responded to by ripping into the member especially if they are likely to then rip into you on a magnified scale. Also, ripping into their fave team/driver is not advisable especially when not having real facts, knowledge or reason beyond ""balancing"" the joy of others etc etc

Finally tho, if someone keeps contradicting others and raising inane and hypocritical objections why should they be deprived of the ""ridicule"" they are obviously addicted to?
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Re: Current Issues with Forum behaviour?

Post by sagi58 »

Nothing new here! It's all about one's perspective and the lack of subjectivity when it comes to favourite teams/drivers.
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