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Just as it says...
#431291
So... If I'm paying 84.9 cents / Liter here, I'd be paying $3.21 CDN for a US gallon, compared to your $2.00 US.
Too bad we can't be paying 52.8 cents CDN for a L!!

Remind me, why do we want that pipeline?




((based on 84.9 CDN cents/L converts to 71.6 US cents /L and 1 US Gallon is the equivalent of 3.78541L))

I sure don't want the pipeline. It would be for the dirtiest fuel in the world :banghead:


It's crude... not dirty!! :P The U.S. of A. will easily refine it for your delicate usage!!
Wish we had the refineries up here, as it is, we'll end up buying it back for double what
we're going to sell it to you for!!

p.s. I was under the impression you liked "dirty"!! :thumbup:
#431292
Was forgetting US gallon is smaller, but still

1.65x3.785=$6.25 US per US gallon


The $1.65 is the US currency of your £1.09, so when you multiply that by 3.78541L (in a US gallon), you'd pay £4.12 for the gallon.


Yeah but i was comparing it to cigarguy's $2 a gallon so had to convert to $'s
#431293
I, for one am really enjoying being able to fill my 16 Gallon fuel tank for less than $25, three months ago, it cost $50 to fill up one car, now we can fill up both cars for $50.
#431294
Was forgetting US gallon is smaller, but still

1.65x3.785=$6.25 US per US gallon


The $1.65 is the US currency of your £1.09, so when you multiply that by 3.78541L (in a US gallon), you'd pay £4.12 for the gallon.


Yeah but i was comparing it to cigarguy's $2 a gallon so had to convert to $'s

My head hurts. I can do the liters to gallons and the dollars to pounds, but too much bourbon makes both impossible. Meanwhile it is 60F on the back porch, which is , what 15.5C?
#431295
So... If I'm paying 84.9 cents / Liter here, I'd be paying $3.21 CDN for a US gallon, compared to your $2.00 US.
Too bad we can't be paying 52.8 cents CDN for a L!!

Remind me, why do we want that pipeline?




((based on 84.9 CDN cents/L converts to 71.6 US cents /L and 1 US Gallon is the equivalent of 3.78541L))

I sure don't want the pipeline. It would be for the dirtiest fuel in the world :banghead:


It's crude... not dirty!! :P The U.S. of A. will easily refine it for your delicate usage!!
Wish we had the refineries up here, as it is, we'll end up buying it back for double what
we're going to sell it to you for!!

p.s. I was under the impression you liked "dirty"!! :thumbup:

The extraction of oil from tar sands IS the worst for the environment!
#431303
The fuel prices around here have dropped quite a bit in the last few months. £1.30 a Litre, to I think I saw it for £1.07 yesterday. They have said it may fall to below £1 a L. last time it was that was probably 2007 ish
#431307
You can thank the United States of America and Saudi Arabia for that, I've been keeping up with the whys and OPEC as we know it is under some serious stress. In any case, SUV and truck sales are way up in the USA... You know cause gas prices will stay low forever.
#431315
USA trying to f**k Russia over as long as they can, so lets see how much is enough before Putin issues World War III.

Over here though, fuel prices decreased from RM2.30 ($0.70) to RM1.91 ($0.55). I can get almost half a tank now for 50 bucks! :thumbup:
#431323
...The extraction of oil from tar sands IS the worst for the environment!

It would seem there is very little that is good for the environment, on a mass scale! :(
#431324
...The extraction of oil from tar sands IS the worst for the environment!

It would seem there is very little that is good for the environment, on a mass scale! :(

In their 2011 commissioned report entitled "Prudent Development: Realizing the Potential of North America’s Abundant Natural Gas and Oil Resources," the National Petroleum Council, an advisory committee to the U.S. Secretary of Energy, acknowledged health and safety concerns regarding the oil sands which include "volumes of water needed to generate issues of water sourcing; removal of overburden for surface mining can fragment wildlife habitat and increase the risk of soil erosion or surface run-off events to nearby water systems; GHG and other air emissions from production."[83]

Oil sands extraction can affect the land when the bitumen is initially mined, water resources by its requirement for large quantities of water during separation of the oil and sand, and the air due to the release of carbon dioxide and other emissions.[84] Heavy metals such as vanadium, nickel, lead, cobalt, mercury, chromium, cadmium, arsenic, selenium, copper, manganese, iron and zinc are naturally present in oil sands and may be concentrated by the extraction process.[85] The environmental impact caused by oil sand extraction is frequently criticized by environmental groups such as Greenpeace, Climate Reality Project, Pembina Institute, 350.org, MoveOn.org, League of Conservation Voters, Patagonia, Sierra Club, and Energy Action Coalition.[86][87] In particular, mercury contamination has been found around tar sands production in Alberta, Canada.[88] The European Union has indicated that it may vote to label oil sands oil as "highly polluting". Although oil sands exports to Europe are minimal, the issue has caused friction between the EU and Canada.[89] According to the California-based Jacobs Consultancy, the European Union used inaccurate and incomplete data in assigning a high greenhouse gas rating to gasoline derived from Alberta’s oilsands. Also, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and Russia do not provide data on how much natural gas is released via flaring or venting in the oil extraction process. The Jacobs report pointed out that extra carbon emissions from oil-sand crude are 12 percent higher than from regular crude, although it was assigned a GHG rating 22% above the conventional benchmark by EU.[90][91]

In 2014 results of a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences showed that official reports on emissions were not high enough. Report authors noted that, "emissions of organic substances with potential toxicity to humans and the environment are a major concern surrounding the rapid industrial development in the Athabasca oil sands region (AOSR)." This study found that tailings ponds were an indirect pathway transporting uncontrolled releases of evaporative emissions of three representative polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon (PAH)s (phenanthrene, pyrene, and benzo(a)pyrene) and that these emissions had been previously unreported.[92][93]
Air pollution management

Since 1995, monitoring in the oil sands region shows improved or no change in long term air quality for the five key air quality pollutants – carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, ozone, fine particulate matter (PM2.5) and sulfur dioxide – used to calculate the Air Quality Index.[94] Air monitoring has shown significant increases[when?] in exceedances of hydrogen sulfide (H
2S) both in the Fort McMurray area and near the oil sands upgraders.[95]

In 2007, the Alberta government issued an environmental protection order to Suncor in response to numerous occasions when ground level concentration for hydrogen sulfide (formula H
2S) exceeded standards.[96]
Land use and waste management

A large part of oil sands mining operations involves clearing trees and brush from a site and removing the overburden— topsoil, muskeg, sand, clay and gravel – that sits atop the oil sands deposit.[97] Approximately two tons of oil sands are needed to produce one barrel of oil (roughly 1/8 of a ton).[citation needed] As a condition of licensing, projects are required to implement a reclamation plan.[98] The mining industry asserts that the boreal forest will eventually colonize the reclaimed lands, but their operations are massive and work on long-term timeframes. As of 2013, about 715 square kilometres (276 sq mi) of land in the oil sands region have been disturbed, and 72 km2 (28 sq mi) of that land is under reclamation.[99] In March 2008, Alberta issued the first-ever oil sands land reclamation certificate to Syncrude for the 1.04 square kilometres (0.40 sq mi) parcel of land known as Gateway Hill approximately 35 kilometres (22 mi) north of Fort McMurray.[100] Several reclamation certificate applications for oil sands projects are expected within the next 10 years.[101]
Water management

Between 2 to 4.5 volume units of water are used to produce each volume unit of synthetic crude oil in an ex-situ mining operation. According to Greenpeace, the Canadian oil sands operations use 349×106 m3/a (12.3×109 cu ft/a) of water, twice the amount of water used by the city of Calgary.[102] However, in SAGD operations, 90–95% of the water is recycled and only about 0.2 volume units of water is used per volume unit of bitumen produced.[103]

For the Athabasca oil sand operations water is supplied from the Athabasca River, the ninth longest river in Canada.[104] The average flow just downstream of Fort McMurray is 633 m3/s (22,400 cu ft/s) with its highest daily average measuring 1,200 m3/s (42,000 cu ft/s).[105][106] Oil sands industries water license allocations totals about 1.8% of the Athabasca river flow. Actual use in 2006 was about 0.4%.[107] In addition, according to the Water Management Framework for the Lower Athabasca River, during periods of low river flow water consumption from the Athabasca River is limited to 1.3% of annual average flow.[108]

In December 2010, the Oil Sands Advisory Panel, commissioned by former environment minister Jim Prentice, found that the system in place for monitoring water quality in the region, including work by the Regional Aquatic Monitoring Program, the Alberta Water Research Institute, the Cumulative Environmental Management Association and others, was piecemeal and should become more comprehensive and coordinated.[109][110]
Greenhouse gas emissions

The production of bitumen and synthetic crude oil emits more greenhouse gases than the production of conventional crude oil. A 2009 study by the consulting firm IHS CERA estimated that production from Canada's oil sands emits "about 5% to 15% more carbon dioxide, over the "well-to-wheels" (WTW) lifetime analysis of the fuel, than average crude oil."[111] Author and investigative journalist David Strahan that same year stated that IEA figures show that carbon dioxide emissions from the oil sands are 20% higher than average emissions from the petroleum production.[112]

A Stanford University study commissioned by the EU in 2011 found that oil sands crude was as much as 22% more carbon intensive than other fuels.[113][114]

Greenpeace says the oil sands industry has been identified as the largest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions growth in Canada, as it accounts for 40 million tons of CO
2 emissions per year.[115]

According to the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers and Environment Canada the industrial activity undertaken to produce oil sands make up about 5% of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions, or 0.1% of global greenhouse gas emissions. It predicts the oil sands will grow to make up 8% of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions by 2015.[116] While the production industrial activity emissions per barrel of bitumen produced decreased 26% over the decade 1992–2002, total emissions from production activity were expected to increase due to higher production levels.[117][118] As of 2006, to produce one barrel of oil from the oil sands released almost 75 kilograms (165 lb) of greenhouse gases with total emissions estimated to be 67 megatonnes (66,000,000 long tons; 74,000,000 short tons) per year by 2015.[119] A study by IHS CERA found that fuels made from Canadian oil sands resulted in significantly lower greenhouse gas emissions than many commonly cited estimates.[120] A 2012 study by Swart and Weaver estimated that if only the economically viable reserve of 170 Gbbl (27×109 m3) oil sands was burnt, the global mean temperature would increase by 0.02 to 0.05 °C. If the entire oil-in-place of 1.8 trillion barrels were to be burnt, the predicted global mean temperature increase is 0.24 to 0.50 °C.[121] Bergerson et al. found that while the WTW emissions can be higher than crude oil, the lower emitting oil sands cases can outperform higher emitting conventional crude cases.[122]

To offset greenhouse gas emissions from the oil sands and elsewhere in Alberta, sequestering carbon dioxide emissions inside depleted oil and gas reservoirs has been proposed. This technology is inherited from enhanced oil recovery methods.[123] In July 2008, the Alberta government announced a C$2 billion fund to support sequestration projects in Alberta power plants and oil sands extraction and upgrading facilities.[124][125][126]

In November 2014, Fatih Birol, the chief economist of the International Energy Agency, described additional greenhouse gas emissions from Canada's oil sands as “extremely low”. The IEA forecasts that in the next 25 years oil sands production in Canada will increase by more than 3 million barrels per day (480,000 m3/d), but Dr. Birol said “the emissions of this additional production is equal to only 23 hours of emissions of China — not even one day.” The IEA is charged with responsibility for battling climate change, but Dr. Birol said he spends little time worrying about carbon emissions from oil sands. “There is a lot of discussion on oil sands projects in Canada and the United States and other parts of the world, but to be frank, the additional CO2 emissions coming from the oil sands is extremely low.” Dr. Birol acknowledged that there is tremendous difference of opinion on the course of action regarding climate change, but added, “I hope all these reactions are based on scientific facts and sound analysis.”[127][128]
Aquatic life deformities

There is conflicting research on the effects of the oil sands development on aquatic life. In 2007, Environment Canada completed a study that shows high deformity rates in fish embryos exposed to the oil sands. David W. Schindler, a limnologist from the University of Alberta, co-authored a study on Alberta's oil sands' contribution of aromatic polycyclic compounds, some of which are known carcinogens, to the Athabasca River and its tributaries.[129] Scientists, local doctors, and residents supported a letter sent to the Prime Minister in September 2010 calling for an independent study of Lake Athabasca (which is downstream of the oil sands) to be initiated due to the rise of deformities and tumors found in fish caught there.[130]

The bulk of the research that defends the oil sands development is done by the Regional Aquatics Monitoring Program (RAMP). RAMP studies show that deformity rates are normal compared to historical data and the deformity rates in rivers upstream of the oil sands.[131][132]
Public health impacts

In 2007, it was suggested that wildlife has been negatively affected by the oil sands; for instance, moose were found in a 2006 study to have as high as 453 times the acceptable levels of arsenic in their systems, though later studies lowered this to 17 to 33 times the acceptable level (although below international thresholds for consumption).[133]

Concerns have been raised concerning the negative impacts that the oil sands have on public health, including higher than normal rates of cancer among residents of Fort Chipewyan.[134] However, John O'Connor, the doctor who initially reported the higher cancer rates and linked them to the oil sands development, was subsequently investigated by the Alberta College of Physicians and Surgeons. The College later reported that O'Connor's statements consisted of "mistruths, inaccuracies and unconfirmed information."[135]

In 2010, the Royal Society of Canada released a report stating that "there is currently no credible evidence of environmental contaminant exposures from oil sands reaching Fort Chipewyan at levels expected to cause elevated human cancer rates."[135]

In August 2011, the Alberta government initiated a provincial health study to examine whether a link exists between the higher rates of cancer and the oil sands emissions.[136]

In a report released in 2014, Alberta’s Chief Medical Officer of Health, Dr. James Talbot, stated that "There isn’t strong evidence for an association between any of these cancers and environmental exposure [to tar sands]." Rather, Talbot suggested that the cancer rates at Fort Chipewyan, which were slightly higher compared with the provincial average, were likely due to a combination of factors such as high rates of smoking, obesity, diabetes, and alcoholism as well as poor levels of vaccination."[135]
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