Marussia Support

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Re: Marussia Support

Post by racechick »

Like me, Buxton believes the teams have been incredibly short sighted!! But he offers far more insight than I could concerning the political intrigue involved. An interesting read for those interested in this decision.

https://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/a ... ef1journo/
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by CookinFlat6 »

Only one team have a historical veto on the rules, i.e. can change them in secret at anytime, and only 1 team stand to benefit by Marussia not making the grid and collecting its prize money as a going concern. That team is owed money for engines and would be expected to keep suplying as Marussias prize money would go to running the team not creditors.
So a win win for Ferrari

Will Buxton wrote:Sources have informed this writer that Scuderia Ferrari is not behind the latest attempt to keep Manor afloat. Indeed, Ferrari has long attempted to maintain an independent position as a supplier to its engine partners and as such even talk of Haas becoming a junior team would seem to be wide of the mark. With the arrival of Sebastian Vettel and a wholesale change in management team at the Scuderia, Maranello it seems already has enough on its plate.


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Re: Marussia Support

Post by Hammer278 »

I'd go with this guy's point of view. An editor on another site.


Marussia: Let's not get emotional
Maurice Hamilton February 6, 2015

Self-interest in Formula 1? Why is anyone surprised?

The thing that surprises me, judging by hysterical reaction to the Marussia situation, is that some people believe F1 is a sort of cosy club that should feel obliged to look after its own. Try telling that to Enzo Ferrari if he were still around.

I'm not saying what's happened to Marussia is pleasant, correct, caring - or any of the emotional terms that have flooded website comments in the wake of rejection by the F1 Strategy Group. But it is to be expected if you have a system that allows the clowns to run the circus.

The absence of an authoritative ringmaster has been evident ever since power slipped away from the FIA over the years and the former dictator who got things done moved to the front of house to concentrate on counting the takings for a new owner who couldn't care less. Rightly, or most certainly wrongly, this is the way it is and we shouldn't be surprised if Marussia's application to run a 2014 car has been rejected.

But don't blame Force India just because deputy team principal Bob Fernley raised his hand first. One dissenter in a vote that requires unanimity allows others to sit staring at the agenda while quietly agreeing with Fernley.

It's unfortunate for Force India that their obvious FINANCIAL struggle has prompted the knee-jerk reaction that the rejection was motivated entirely by the thought of dividing up the £30m due to Marussia. The actual figure would come to just over £3m for each team if the MONEY
is shared between them all, or more if limited to hard-luck cases Lotus, Force India and Sauber. Either way, it's peanuts in the overall scheme of things... (By the way, when I referred in Old Mo's Almanac to teams fighting each other during the reading of Marussia's will, I was only joking….)

Setting aside the questionable method of administration and ruling out the nonsense over Force India's motives, let's pause for a moment and look at what's on offer.

A 2014 car at the back of the grid is going to be even slower than it was last year and racing against teams that have, at great expense, been forced to upgrade their cars. Presumably Marussia would be looking for engines from Ferrari, to whom, allegedly, money is still owed. So, how would all of that work?

Sentiment may say it would be nice for a team of hard-working, really nice people to be allowed to race. And you may argue that the grid needs more than 18 cars. I would agree with both - up to a point.

It's necessary to recognise that this is F1 and should be the state-of-the-art flagship for motor sport without presenting a team that was unable to show the Strategy Group any 'substance' other than what amounted to a wing and a prayer on a single sheet of paper.

There has been talk of a rescue package. Great! Bring it on. Marussia can miss the first three races. It will cost megabucks to have a new car ready but, if the backers can do it, let them step up to the plate. Yes, we could talk all day about how and why F1 is so ludicrously expensive. But, for the moment, that's not the point. As things stand, it's the name of a game which the revamped Marussia would be most welcome to join.

In 1964, the British Racing Partnership (BRP) was forced to close its doors when denied access to the then Formula 1 Constructors Association and, more important, the start money necessary to keep the small independent team going. By the standards of Ferrari, Lotus, BRM et al, BRP were deemed not to be up to scratch and unworthy of further stretching the limited FUNDS of the race organisers. That's the way it was. And still is.

Self-interest in F1? Why is anyone surprised?
Breaking News: Lewis Hamilton has officially overtaken The Fonz in race wins. With 88 races less. Lol (Without a specially built blown diffuser, illegal front wing, preferential treatment)
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by racechick »

A bit more here. Marussia apparantly pressing on.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/31175166
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by sagi58 »

CookinFlat6 wrote:
1Lemon wrote:Could you link it?


I am tryng to stay away from upsetting Ferrari fans on the Marrussia thread

https://twitter.com/Gianlu_DAle


Am I missing something? That link is for the Twitter page of a GianLu D'Alessandro:
ferrarifan.JPG

He seems to be a Ferrari fan... and I couldn't find anything near a rumour he was told
CookinFlat6 wrote:By a team insider according to the ex Ferrari boss...

Maybe you could copy and paste the "offensive" comment and provide the link to it?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by sagi58 »

Ecclestone has a point here... maybe it's not "just" about the prize money...
On Image, Christian Sylt wrote:Marussia voted off the grid as rival teams take their £34m share of prize-money

...Marussia, in limbo for the past three months, had missed valuable development time on a 2015 car, so planned to use an updated version of last year’s. This would have saved time and costs compared with the other teams, who have had to design a new car from scratch. “Maybe the other teams would have liked to use last year’s car,” Ecclestone said. “The trouble was that you can’t do these things for one team, you have got to do it for everybody.”
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by sagi58 »

Or maybe it is just about the prize money...

Will Buxton (a.k.a. willthef1journo) wrote:Getting Stuffed

...But I do not believe for a moment it is a vote which [Bob Fernley] will have taken lightly or easily. As I said, Fernley is a smart man and one with a wider view of the sport. But if reports are to be believed, his team is not in the strongest financial health. Force India sat out the first test in Jerez and may not see its 2015 car run in Barcelona later this month. There are widespread reports of unpaid bills and delays in chassis construction.

The team’s title sponsor, Sahara, is in financially questionable times as its founder Subrata Roy has been imprisoned since March 2014. Vijay Mallya himself was declared a “willful defaulter” by the United Bank of India in August 2014, with his now insolvent Kingfisher Airlines owing over $1 billion in bank loans.

It seems only logical that Mallya might order Fernley to vote against Marussia’s request for leniency, thus freeing up the estimated £34 million which would have gone to Marussia / Manor for their ninth place finish in the 2014 Formula 1 World Championship, to be divided amongst the remaining teams...

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Re: Marussia Support

Post by CookinFlat6 »

sagi58 wrote:
CookinFlat6 wrote:
1Lemon wrote:Could you link it?


I am tryng to stay away from upsetting Ferrari fans on the Marrussia thread

https://twitter.com/Gianlu_DAle


Am I missing something? That link is for the Twitter page of a GianLu D'Alessandro:
ferrarifan.JPG

He seems to be a Ferrari fan... and I couldn't find anything near a rumour he was told
CookinFlat6 wrote:By a team insider according to the ex Ferrari boss...

Maybe you could copy and paste the "offensive" comment and provide the link to it?



:clap: You hit the nail on the head

those that want, can read between the lines, connect the dots etc

and those who choose not to see what journos have to cleverly hide not to upset certain teams and fans, can see what they want and not be upset

I choose not to point things out for fear of upsetting ""supporters"" on the Marrusia """thread"""
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by sagi58 »

Image wrote:Ecclestone confirms F1 teams blocked Marussia return

...We have reported that Red Bull and Toro Rosso were among those who rejected Manor’s application, while the BBC says another dissenter was Force India.

The Finnish newspaper Turun Sanomat, meanwhile, claims that only Mercedes and Ferrari actually voted to allow Manor back in...
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by sagi58 »

Image wrote:Marussia now targets China comeback with 2015 car

Thursday's Paris blow may not be the death knell for Marussia.

At the strategy group meeting, Force India and other rival teams blocked the ailing backmarker's bid to return as Manor this year by using its 2014 car.

But Germany's Auto Motor und Sport claims on Friday that Manor has a new plan.

"The team will attempt to get a car ready for the new regulations for the third race in Shanghai," correspondent Tobias Gruner reported.

Under the current rules, teams reportedly may miss up to three grands prix and still keep their world championship status alive.

Gruner said Manor has ruled out being able to get a 2015 rules-conforming car up and running for Australia and Malaysia, so the Chinese grand prix in mid-April has now been set as the new goal.

"Whether a team with limited resources and a diminished staff can win this race against time is unclear," the correspondent added.

But "Bernie Ecclestone is said to have promised the team his definite support," Auto Motor und Sport claimed.
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by myownalias »

I would love to see Marussia/Manor come back in China and somehow beat Force India on the track, that would make my year! It's pretty obvious that the blocking of Marussia's rejoining the F1 grid is financially motivated, especially by cash strapped Force India. The current system which gives teams power to make policy baffles me. Surely governing body, the FIA should be the rule makers and then teams choose to either compete under those rules or walk away. When teams are allowed to affect policy, it's going to lead to abuse as they are self serving entities.
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by Jabberwocky »

myownalias wrote:I would love to see Marussia/Manor come back in China and somehow beat Force India on the track, that would make my year! It's pretty obvious that the blocking of Marussia's rejoining the F1 grid is financially motivated, especially by cash strapped Force India. The current system which gives teams power to make policy baffles me. Surely governing body, the FIA should be the rule makers and then teams choose to either compete under those rules or walk away. When teams are allowed to affect policy, it's going to lead to abuse as they are self serving entities.


isnt this all part of a hang over from FOTA?
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by myownalias »

The main issue I have is that not all entered teams get a say in the rules; how can there be a participant controlled sport when only the top 5 "established" teams + the best of the rest? I think FOTA was a better, but flawed solution as that was a body representing all the teams interests against what FOM/FIA want!
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by Jabberwocky »

going back to your original point. Why should any team make the rules for the sport? don't we all make the rules for our own countries.
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Re: Marussia Support

Post by myownalias »

The simple answer is that when participants are shaping the rules, the sport is hopelessly biased towards the big and powerful, e.g. rich teams, a bit like the USA where the mega-corporations buy politicians that make policy in their favor. F1 needs a major shakeup in the way in the way prize money is awarded and Ferrari should not get extra just because they are Ferrari.

A good example as this is a Marussia thread is the budget cap which USF1, Manor, Lotus and Hispania were lured in under, that never materialized because the big rich teams pissed all over it because it didn't suit their agendas. I truly believe F1 is heading down the wrong road with the teams controlling the sport and the FIA constantly moving the goalposts (maybe at the behest of Ferarri, Mercedes etc). The FIA are always talking about cost cutting, but nearly everything they do ends up costing teams more every year, hence the demise of Caterham and Marussia.
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