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[What's Burning?]

I take it you don't think Lewis will contribute to Mercedes making a step forward next year?

[Denthúl]

I take it you don't think Lewis will contribute to Mercedes making a step forward next year?

I think they might see some more consistent points finishes and maybe a couple of podiums beyond what they could have expected otherwise (I'm certainly not going to deny that there have been cases over the past few years where I think someone like Lewis or Fernando could have dragged the car further up than it's been), but I think this will be more down to him pushing the car to the limits than the car being a major improvement over this year's. I still think Lotus will be ahead of them and outdevelop them over the course of the season, and Mercedes will retain 5th in the WCC.

[Hammer278]

I think Mercedes are well aware that performances are below par, both Haug and Brawn have said so. but I doubt they'll be wasting time and resources on the rest of this year. They're focused on next year and particularly th year after.

The problem with this attitude from them, as I've pointed out before, is that they have stopped the development of their car early every season since their return in 2010, yet the next season has been just as much a joke; can't understand the tyres, can't reduce deg, seem to have issues with cornering etc. so I'm not convinced that this "we'll get it right in 2014" is going to live up to some peoples' expectations. Certainly, I wish them well, but I'm willing to bet that they won't make a leap to the front of the pack.

They entered F1 as a full manufacturer 3 years ago. Some key people in the aero department only arrived during the off season pre 2012. You can't change much for the season when new department heads join a team while a car is already in prototype stage ready to be launched. I enjoy the fact that Merc are having disastrous races now, as it clearly shows they are very much looking into the near future instead of right now. They can't catch Lotus, and there's not much threat from behind so in nowhere land, this season's set for them.

There's also a reason why you hire one of the most expensive drivers on the grid at this time, coinciding with the timing where they can make some serious progress now that everyone required is in place. They have the engine sorted out, getting the aero to work will take time and you can surely expect some progress from them in 2013. Not Championship winning, but a solid foothold in getting into the Top 3 Constructors.

[What's Burning?]

And I'll be very curious to see what happens. If Mercedes finish ahead of Lotus next year, that's a success for them... enough of a success that it pretty much would pay for Lewis' contract.

The flip side is that Mclaren will not have a Lewis Hamilton next year to get them point during the "lean" races... the stint where Button is unable to find grip and is struggling to make it in to Q3 for five or six races.

Actually next year you could have McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes all fighting for third place.

[racechick]

Now wouldn't that be exciting!!!
This is the first time since Mercedes entered F1 that Brawn has said he now has the team he requires. And they also have Lewis. Brawn has been pretty successful wherever else he's been, I wouldn't bet against him.

[Denthúl]

I think Mercedes are well aware that performances are below par, both Haug and Brawn have said so. but I doubt they'll be wasting time and resources on the rest of this year. They're focused on next year and particularly th year after.

The problem with this attitude from them, as I've pointed out before, is that they have stopped the development of their car early every season since their return in 2010, yet the next season has been just as much a joke; can't understand the tyres, can't reduce deg, seem to have issues with cornering etc. so I'm not convinced that this "we'll get it right in 2014" is going to live up to some peoples' expectations. Certainly, I wish them well, but I'm willing to bet that they won't make a leap to the front of the pack.

They entered F1 as a full manufacturer 3 years ago. Some key people in the aero department only arrived during the off season pre 2012. You can't change much for the season when new department heads join a team while a car is already in prototype stage ready to be launched. I enjoy the fact that Merc are having disastrous races now, as it clearly shows they are very much looking into the near future instead of right now. They can't catch Lotus, and there's not much threat from behind so in nowhere land, this season's set for them.

There's also a reason why you hire one of the most expensive drivers on the grid at this time, coinciding with the timing where they can make some serious progress now that everyone required is in place. They have the engine sorted out, getting the aero to work will take time and you can surely expect some progress from them in 2013. Not Championship winning, but a solid foothold in getting into the Top 3 Constructors.

Perhaps, but key senior staff (Bell, Willis and Costa) arrived prior to the end of the 2011 season, so unless they've been focusing on next year or 2014 right from the beginning, they've had no visible impact on Mercedes' update strategy. It will certainly be interesting to see what impact they do have, though. Especially Costa, considering the circumstances surrounding his Ferrari departure.

And I'll be very curious to see what happens. If Mercedes finish ahead of Lotus next year, that's a success for them... enough of a success that it pretty much would pay for Lewis' contract.

The flip side is that Mclaren will not have a Lewis Hamilton next year to get them point during the "lean" races... the stint where Button is unable to find grip and is struggling to make it in to Q3 for five or six races.

Actually next year you could have McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes all fighting for third place.

That is certainly a possibility. One could also argue that, by having two drivers who are easy on their tyres and don't throw the car around to get heat into them in the same way Lewis does, it gives them one clear route on how to develop certain car characteristics in order to eliminate the problem entirely. 2013 is definitely going to be interesting from a car development point of view, even if it will be overshadowed by 2014's big changes.

[Hammer278]

That is certainly a possibility. One could also argue that, by having two drivers who are easy on their tyres and don't throw the car around to get heat into them in the same way Lewis does, it gives them one clear route on how to develop certain car characteristics in order to eliminate the problem entirely. 2013 is definitely going to be interesting from a car development point of view, even if it will be overshadowed by 2014's big changes.

Okay....isn't this myth busted by now? Button sold himself very well till this season about being some sort of great tyre conserver, but it all came unwrapped this season. He couldn't get a handle on the tyres, he frequently pits before Lewis due to degradation, in fact it happened today as well! Anyone can be a tyre conserver, it's just that Buttons lack of pace translated in a tyre lasting maybe 1-2 laps more than Hamiltons. When Hamilton started playing this conserving game (while still being faster) it showed anyone can do it.

Next year, they are going to have to refer to this years' data when Button goes back to business as usual in finding fault with the balance/tyres/brakes/nogrips/whatnot since Perez can only watch...since he's there to learn from Mr 'Tyre Conserver'.

[Denthúl]

That is certainly a possibility. One could also argue that, by having two drivers who are easy on their tyres and don't throw the car around to get heat into them in the same way Lewis does, it gives them one clear route on how to develop certain car characteristics in order to eliminate the problem entirely. 2013 is definitely going to be interesting from a car development point of view, even if it will be overshadowed by 2014's big changes.

Okay....isn't this myth busted by now? Button sold himself very well till this season about being some sort of great tyre conserver, but it all came unwrapped this season. He couldn't get a handle on the tyres, he frequently pits before Lewis due to degradation, in fact it happened today as well! Anyone can be a tyre conserver, it's just that Buttons lack of pace translated in a tyre lasting maybe 1-2 laps more than Hamiltons. When Hamilton started playing this conserving game (while still being faster) it showed anyone can do it.

Next year, they are going to have to refer to this years' data when Button goes back to business as usual in finding fault with the balance/tyres/brakes/nogrips/whatnot since Perez can only watch...since he's there to learn from Mr 'Tyre Conserver'.

I'm not talking about degradation (which would have minimal impact on single-lap pace anyway), but rather getting the tyres up to the prime operating temperature during a qualifying run. Both Button and Pérez have significantly better race pace than qualifying pace, and this seems to be a contributing factor to that.

[What's Burning?]

And I'll be very curious to see what happens. If Mercedes finish ahead of Lotus next year, that's a success for them... enough of a success that it pretty much would pay for Lewis' contract.

The flip side is that Mclaren will not have a Lewis Hamilton next year to get them point during the "lean" races... the stint where Button is unable to find grip and is struggling to make it in to Q3 for five or six races.

Actually next year you could have McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes all fighting for third place.

That is certainly a possibility. One could also argue that, by having two drivers who are easy on their tyres and don't throw the car around to get heat into them in the same way Lewis does, it gives them one clear route on how to develop certain car characteristics in order to eliminate the problem entirely. 2013 is definitely going to be interesting from a car development point of view, even if it will be overshadowed by 2014's big changes.

I think that more often than not, that's the strategy to take when you can't win on raw speed/talent. A car that is easy on tires benefits any style of driving, not just the guy that can better manage the tires. Perez has earned himself a reputation for being easy on tires on a car that is clearly good on tires and yet he's only one spot ahead of Kobayashi.

I'd take a guy that can pass and can qualify well over a guy that can nurse the tires. I think if anything the situation with the Pirelli rubber will go towards increasing the longevity of the tires and the more teams understand now about how to get the most out of them I think team won't be so nearly caught off guard by the tires at the beginning of next season.

[racechick]

So next year there'll be two drivers who can't qualify well rather than one. If both cant get heat in their tyres.

[Denthúl]

And I'll be very curious to see what happens. If Mercedes finish ahead of Lotus next year, that's a success for them... enough of a success that it pretty much would pay for Lewis' contract.

The flip side is that Mclaren will not have a Lewis Hamilton next year to get them point during the "lean" races... the stint where Button is unable to find grip and is struggling to make it in to Q3 for five or six races.

Actually next year you could have McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes all fighting for third place.

That is certainly a possibility. One could also argue that, by having two drivers who are easy on their tyres and don't throw the car around to get heat into them in the same way Lewis does, it gives them one clear route on how to develop certain car characteristics in order to eliminate the problem entirely. 2013 is definitely going to be interesting from a car development point of view, even if it will be overshadowed by 2014's big changes.

I think that more often than not, that's the strategy to take when you can't win on raw speed/talent. A car that is easy on tires benefits any style of driving, not just the guy that can better manage the tires. Perez has earned himself a reputation for being easy on tires on a car that is clearly good on tires and yet he's only one spot ahead of Kobayashi.

I'd take a guy that can pass and can qualify well over a guy that can nurse the tires. I think if anything the situation with the Pirelli rubber will go towards increasing the longevity of the tires and the more teams understand now about how to get the most out of them I think team won't be so nearly caught off guard by the tires at the beginning of next season.

See above. Naturally, you're going to want to have your car not chew its tyres, but you also don't want to get in to the kind of situation where the car is so temperature sensitive that in colder races you're nowhere and hotter ones you're right up front.

Whilst Pérez is only one spot ahead of Kobayashi, we all know that the standings aren't everything. He's had more impressive races and topped the podium more times, even coming close to winning a race, something which Kobayashi hasn't done.

So next year there'll be two drivers who can't qualify well rather than one. If both cant get heat in their tyres.

Maybe.

[f1boy]

So next year there'll be two drivers who can't qualify well rather than one. If both cant get heat in their tyres.

Can you imagine Whitmarsh's post race interviews.

"Yes, both drivers had an issue with grip today"..........

[Hammer278]

So next year there'll be two drivers who can't qualify well rather than one. If both cant get heat in their tyres.

Can you imagine Whitmarsh's post race interviews.

"Yes, both drivers had an issue with grip today"..........

"....however, one of them is a very bright prospect for the future, and Jenson is still as disturbingly good looking as when he joined us..."

[What's Burning?]

It's his opinion, but Jenson is a pretty good looking guy.

[Hammer278]

He looks like a typical teenage girls boytoy to me, but either way, it doesn't help him gain crucial tenths on track to match the best drivers.