Jenson Button 22 Support

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Jenson Button 22 Support

Post by racechick »

This is not a thread to have a go at Jenson ,but to discuss things. I've a couple of questions i wouldnt mind hearing people's views on.
1) What do you think is the cause of Jenson's current downturn in form?'
I always expected Lewis to be ahead and was suprised last yearwhen(credit to Jenson) he finnished ahead of Lewis. But even at the height of Lewis awful year he still generally had pace, its just he drove with frustration and had off track issues. Jenson appears to have no pace at the moment. I think his driving style cant work these tyres but he says not. he syas he cant be the only driver on the grid not to be able to work them and he thinks its something else on the car. Thoughts?

2)Why did McLaren renew jenson's contract for three years?

I dont ask this in the light of his current performances, I was thinking the same thing when it was announced last year. My reasoning? Well jenson is one of the older racers and Lewis is no longer one of the youngest. If Id been doing the contracts Id have kept Jenson on a one year at a time contract(much as Red Bull keep Mark) While looking for a young charger to partner hamilton (the likes of Kobi, Grosjean, Perez). I would have done this with an eye on the future. Thoughts?
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by Hammer278 »

I'd have a go at your 2nd question first....McLaren always seeks continuity. Something I really like about the team, don't forget they hold the record for the longest partnership in F1 - Mika and David. :) And Button's performance last year probably gave them the confidence he has a few good strong years left in him, I think last year was Buttons best drive, way better than his Championship winning season even.

Your first question, well I was recalling his performance race by race last night...apart from Australia (where he was in a different league) he's always been very slow. Malaysia was a wet race, so it can't be counted. China again, he finished just ahead of Lewis despite Lewis getting baulked back twice by slower cars after his pitstop. Bahrain, again he was much slower but we didn't see it so clearly since Lewis lost around 15 seconds in his pitstop and ended up just behind Button (what was he doing 15 seconds behind Lewis?) before Button retired. Spain was when you really felt the rot, Lewis started last and finished ahead. That was when questions started popping up. Monaco, he was nowhere, and now Canada probably his worst race of his career.

As someone mentioned previously, I think it's the tyres. Same reason for Massa...if tyres can change so fast day to day, my guess is these tyres favour those who are able to adapt to a car which is changing constantly. Part of the reason, at Canada which is a slippery track we saw those guys who are known to adapt way ahead of their teammates. Massa was doing a good job till that spin but still, way behind Alonso. Webber who was always giving a hard time this year to Vettel simply faded away in the race. Button, well he's always known to need the perfect handling car to keep up otherwise he's nowhere so his form isn't too surprising for me at the moment.
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by scotty »

Tyres also for me. Also i think the EBD was useful for Button, with the added braking stability and such.

But it is important to remember, Button could just come along and have a couple of brilliant races very easily, form is temporary but class is permanent and all that. Also i think this problem is being overstated by some. As the gaps are very small in this upper midfield area, small problems are costing him big in terms of position, making it seem much worse than it perhaps is. Also, despite having such an extended bad run, he is still not really that far of the championship lead, in old money only 15 points and with 13 races still to go.
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by cheekybru »

scotty wrote:Tyres also for me. Also i think the EBD was useful for Button, with the added braking stability and such.

But it is important to remember, Button could just come along and have a couple of brilliant races very easily, form is temporary but class is permanent and all that. Also i think this problem is being overstated by some. As the gaps are very small in this upper midfield area, small problems are costing him big in terms of position, making it seem much worse than it perhaps is. Also, despite having such an extended bad run, he is still not really that far of the championship lead, in old money only 15 points and with 13 races still to go.


Its not so much about the positions and the points, its more about being 1.5 seconds slower than the top guys a lap, and being LAPPED by his teammate :P
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by Injen »

Jenson is suffering from PERFORMANCE anxiety,nothing to do with the car,he outscored an inconsistent Lewis last year and was told that by Benson,Culthard and Brundle and the Brittish media that he is the best in F1.What he didn't realize is that they were just using him to have dig at Lewis.....Jenson drank the cool aid and believe the hype

Quit surprisingly every ex British driver and all the media came out in favor of Button for the championship over Lewis.....Button was now put in a situation that he has never been in before, a driver favored to win the championship ,where he has to competing week in and week out with the best drivers with no car advantage
But whats worst is not he Button Buckling under the pressure of expectation,but his inability to contend with a consistent performing Lewis,its as¨if Lewis performances sucks the life out of him,there is a grudging feeling thats affecting his performance and it shows.....His swagger is gone,the constant giggling and gloating among he and the BCC boyz is disappearing..... ironically the Brittish media,Martin Witmarsh and Autosport all were writing articles saying that Lewis was unraveling because of Button success.......now the tide have turn they all MUM....

The great white hope has been exposed as being just average and is at risk of showing a lack of ability to fight mano amano with the big boyz

Its one thing fighting for distant 2nd place in the championship where there is no pressure of failure.......Its another to risk it all to fight to be at the top

So to The Button fan club its all in his head. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by LRW »

Problem with Jenson, as much as I like him, he just isn't a 'great' driver.

Look at his F1 career:

button.png


His F1 career was very indifferent, up until 2009, when he had a car that was way ahead of the pack.

Now that he has a car that isnt to his liking, he just cant do anything with it, and is 'doing a Massa'. Compare that to some of the 'great' current drivers: Alsono, Vettel, Hamilton. They have all done some superb driving with some dogs of cars.

I think he is just falling back into his natural place in things.....
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by What's Burning? »

I think Jenson is the poor man's version of Vettel. When things are set up to his licking, he's able to make the best of them, often very mistake free. When they're not then he's simply not as adaptable as others like Alonso or Lewis.

Vettel is sort of like that, although much more of a gifted driver.
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by Jabberwocky »

I agree with Scotty, Jenson has always said that he likess rear end stability under braking. Look at his woes with the the 08 Honda! Last year with the EBD's all his xmases had come at once. Without it I think all the top teams that had relied on it last year have been struggling with the back end ie Mclaren, Redbull, and Ferrari.

Where as the other teams had advanced the non blown diffusers so now that is why this year teams like Sauber, Lotus, and Williams have closed the gap.

So really we could start a thread about how the FIA have a conspiracy against Jenson.
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by Jabberwocky »

Oh and for RC's Question 2, I think it is all down to they do not want to be left in the lurch with no decent drivers if Lewis jumps ship. Where as if they had let Button go they might end up with 2 journey men.
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by What's Burning? »

I secretly find myself wishing that McLaren announce finding a crack in the chassis somewhere that had been the contributing factor to his balance issues of late. Such a hopeless optimist I am.
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by Injen »

What's Burning? wrote:I secretly find myself wishing that McLaren announce finding a crack in the chassis somewhere that had been the contributing factor to his balance issues of late. Such a hopeless optimist I am.



Come on,the simple fact of the matter is Jenson Button is not as fast or good as people think he is,it's a fact.Sometimes in life you have to accept your lot in life and knuckle down and just get on with it.

I think my first post in this thread sums it up nicely,nothing to do with the car,it's identical to Lewis's.On top of that,the car was designed with Button in mind but unlike Jenson no grip,Lewis is an adapter and can drive any car,Button cannot.

If Button thinks it's bad now then he should really called in the anti depressent team because Lewis is about to tighten the screw on the pretender.Jenson is about to get the biggest bottom whipping in his whole F1 career and now it's starting to show,all of the JB groupies who believed the hype are pulling their hair out lol.

Now on top of Lewis we have other drivers that can whip no grip as well,they are faster and more similar to Lewis,it's not looking good for the Brittish media's chosen lol. :thumbdown:

He has no answer to the immense driving Lewis is doing this season,it's looking as bad as Massa and Alonso,it's actually embarrassing.

The self doubt and demons :furious: are manifesting in no grips head and from here on in it's a downward slope.
Last edited by Injen on 11 Jun 12, 14:41, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by The Second Coming »

What's Burning? wrote:I think Jenson is the poor man's version of Vettel. When things are set up to his licking, he's able to make the best of them, often very mistake free. When they're not then he's simply not as adaptable as others like Alonso or Lewis.

Vettel is sort of like that, although much more of a gifted driver.


Nothing against Jenson but crediting him as a poor man's Vettel may be too much credit. Vettel can still be good with a poorly handling car—definitely not setting the world on fire but good nonetheless. We all see that Jenson can't so he's been relegated to battling with Caterhams. Here is his latest quote from this weekend in Canada:
“I love driving an F1 car, so it is not because of my confidence and it is not related to the tyres either,” Button told reporters after the race. “There would be no reason why I would be the only one who was unable to make the tyres work here.”

When asked why he is off the pace by such a margin, Button replied:

“I haven’t got a clue. It is just that, every time we have a good idea, it just doesn’t seem to work and we make no progress. I am not two seconds slower than Lewis (Hamilton) but today I was just out of the front pack by a long way.


“This has been like this for the last couple of races and I’m not sure why – usually this is something I am pretty good at, but not driving one and a half seconds down on the leaders.”


It's apparent to everyone other than Jenson that it is about his confidence. When Lewis has his game face on, he's a very hard bloke and as a consequence, he's broken Jenson, leaving him to answer to his performance with a consistent "I don't know." It is also his inability to properly setup the car and sort out the tyres. It's not like Pirelli has a spec "Button tyre" and everyone else has the good stuff. The disparity between him and Lewis is huge and seemingly growing. If Lewis was back there with him every race weekend, then you could say it's the car/poor engineering, etc. Not so. We can split hairs on the issue of being 2.0 seconds slower than Lewis. Over one lap, Lewis is on average (historically) .500 seconds faster but over a race distance, it's much more. 2.0 seconds...I dunno, so I'll give Jenson that point. But he is far slower than his team-mate and that is another point I think he doesn't want to admit.

The baffling thing is, Lewis had a great thing going with his engineer and they moved the engineer over to Jenson's side of the garage. Despite that questionable move on McLaren's part, Jenson is still lost—the engineer, as clever and experienced as he is, can't seem to figure out what it is that Jenson really needs/wants and therein lies the rub. All the while, Lewis goes out, does a handful of laps, comes back in, tells his new engineer what he wants and comes back out with consistent and faster laps. I'm glad that they have opposite driving styles so Jenson simply can't take Lewis' setup an hide behind that. This allow us to clearly see what each driver is capable of and it's very telling.

I've never been a card-carrying member of the Jenson fan club but I also don't dislike him. And I certainly hate to see any driver fail, especially in his case because he drives for my favorite team. I do hope he gets it together before the season is up, otherwise...

I'm just saying...
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by Hammer278 »

Injen wrote:
What's Burning? wrote:I secretly find myself wishing that McLaren announce finding a crack in the chassis somewhere that had been the contributing factor to his balance issues of late. Such a hopeless optimist I am.



Come on,the simple fact of the matter is Jenson Button is not as fast or good as people think he is,it's a fact.Sometimes in life you have to accept your lot in life and knuckle down and just get on with it.

I think my first post in this thread sums it up nicely,nothing to do with the car,it's identical to Lewis's.On top of that,the car was designed with Button in mind but unlike Jenson no grip,Lewis is an adapter and can drive any car,Button cannot.

If Button thinks it's bad now then he should really called in the anti depressent team because Lewis is about to tighten the screw on the pretender.Jenson is about to get the biggest bottom whipping in his whole F1 career and now it's starting to show,all of the JB groupies who believed the hype are pulling their hair out lol.

He has no answer to the immense driving Lewis is doing this season,it's looking as bad as Massa and Alonso,it's actually embarrassing.

The self doubt and demons are manifesting in no grips head and from here on in it's a downward slope.


As much as I like reading your posts (lol) I think you're jumping the gun here. I find it hard to believe Button will be languishing out of the top 10 every race from here on in, though yes, I do believe he's going to be thrashed by his teammate in the points standings this year. Like Massa found his footing (somewhat) I believe Button will too.
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by Injen »

Hammer278 wrote:
Injen wrote:
What's Burning? wrote:I secretly find myself wishing that McLaren announce finding a crack in the chassis somewhere that had been the contributing factor to his balance issues of late. Such a hopeless optimist I am.



Come on,the simple fact of the matter is Jenson Button is not as fast or good as people think he is,it's a fact.Sometimes in life you have to accept your lot in life and knuckle down and just get on with it.

I think my first post in this thread sums it up nicely,nothing to do with the car,it's identical to Lewis's.On top of that,the car was designed with Button in mind but unlike Jenson no grip,Lewis is an adapter and can drive any car,Button cannot.

If Button thinks it's bad now then he should really called in the anti depressent team because Lewis is about to tighten the screw on the pretender.Jenson is about to get the biggest bottom whipping in his whole F1 career and now it's starting to show,all of the JB groupies who believed the hype are pulling their hair out lol.

He has no answer to the immense driving Lewis is doing this season,it's looking as bad as Massa and Alonso,it's actually embarrassing.

The self doubt and demons are manifesting in no grips head and from here on in it's a downward slope.


As much as I like reading your posts (lol) I think you're jumping the gun here. I find it hard to believe Button will be languishing out of the top 10 every race from here on in, though yes, I do believe he's going to be thrashed by his teammate in the points standings this year. Like Massa found his footing (somewhat) I believe Button will too.


Fact is anyone in the top ten can out quali Button,especially now the cars are so bunched up.You really need to have that something extra and Button has not got it,it's as simple as that.Webber has got his form back this year,the Ferrari has caught up and even Massa has improved,then we have Rosberg really going for it and they are all in cars that are as fast as the Mclaren.

Last year he could hide the fact that he is slow but this year he can't,he is being found out and has no answer,it's a fact.
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Re: Jenson Button

Post by The Second Coming »

RC, as to the issue of a renewed three year deal for Jenson, I do scratch my melon on that move. Continuity within the team? Whitmarsh seemingly liking Jenson about as much as Uncle Ron likes Lewis? Is there the feeling that there is not yet anyone on the horizon good enough to stand up to a one-on-one with Lewis? (Everyone else has failed so far, including one of the best drivers on the grid.) Does McLaren love the complete "British Team" or two "World Champions" tag? Does Jenson come cheap? This one may be a lot more complex to answer. I don't think I'm up for this one. But I do feel like there are folks at Woking scratching their melons about how to proceed for the short and long term based on the current dire circumstances which doesn't seem to be getting better. Even Jenson admitted this weekend (Canada) that he doesn't think there will be any improvement in his performance for the next race or two. Not so good, is it?

I'm just saying...
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