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[Roth]

You may have something there Roth, special talent. Though of your ' nice guys' Button knows how to do the dirty, but Oh so smoothly and with wide eyed innocence...I almost find that worse than overt nastiness. And this is the first time Rosberg has been in a position where the championship is in reach and lo and behold he's played dirty. Vettel played dirty with Webber. Hill was always a gentleman and I've never seen Lewis do the dirty on a competitor.

Twitter gate was a response to being stitched up, he didn't instigates it. When the dirty is done to Lewis he speaks out and let's folk know. I don't blame him for that.

I can't argue that Lewis sometimes comes over as moody. That's part and parcel of Lewis and his heart on sleeve. We see the highs and we see the lows, he can't hide his disappointment especially when it's with himself.

Difference won't be respected, you're right with that as well.

I hope. Alonso does get something, it would be a loss to F1 if he sits it out.

Well, yes, it's not black and white - Button can definitely be the politician, he gets the right people to like him, or like others less; Vettel had some
minor blemishes, mainly petulance; if this is the worst of Rosberg it's hardly a game-changer - at best they're Machiavellian-lite.

Twittergate, yes reactionary, doesn't hold his tongue, fair enough. He thinks he's justified because it's fighting injustice. I don't have a problem with that either.
It's admirable in a corporate environment, one that probably doesn't fully understand the driver's psyche, so tries to leash it. It's frustrating to watch though
because you know despite the best intentions he's only making a rod for his own back.

As for Alonso, the guy is a frickin' genius, and that comes with personality pitfalls. Don't berate him for having higher standards than you can achieve. Just because
you've met the ceiling of your talent doesn't mean he has. If you don't like him criticising you in public build a better car. You don't want him strongarming you, don't
hire him because he's the best, then expect him to toe the gratitiude line. Monti understood this from decades in the pits, MnM don't because they're businessmen.
Which is a shame because they've made some sensible choices otherwise with Allison and Marmorini, but there's no stabilising intermediary between the CEO and
drivers now. They've gotten rid of what they consider dead wood, so proving Alonso right, but taken against Alonso because he's destabilising the team. It would be
like throwing a man overboard for spotting a leak in the boat when he's the only one who knows how to sail it.

[What's Burning?]

See, this is why I keep my eye on what a driver does on the track, not so much on what he does in the boss's office. It's simpler that way. Jules just reminded us that in the end these guys are risking their lives, so I tend to credit drivers first. Whether you're a man that opts for talent in a driver instead of a talent in a team principal or engineer as a way to move the ball forward in the end having both is better than having one.

Ferrari cut off their toe today and is buying a new pair of sneakers tomorrow. Their master plan to improve their time in the marathon. It's not the best idea in the world if you ask me, but what do I know.

[Roth]

I'm the same way usually. Team shenanigans don't interest me much. I still have to look up who does what at Ferrari because of all those letter Ms. But for some reason
this has annoyed me, especially people like Hughes who unjustifiably take against Alonso to protect their press pass or because he was mean to Lewis or whatever.

[CookinFlat6]

Alonso has shown the same pattern at every team he was at, lets not forget that even at McLaren he had just been 'rescued' from renault who were sabotaging him etc etc etc

He is a brilliant driver on track but the evidence is mounting that off track he requires way too much, the whole team has to be sacrificed to his never ending whims, the teammate has to adapt to his preference, the whole team and development has to go his way and the evidence is mounting that he just aint worth it. he is not a Prost, he is good at the off track poilitcking but it seems less a means to an end than just something he likes doing, 'poor me' is getting frankly very boring, he can mkanipulate the team and have a geriatric backward arsed facing chairman singin his tune, even when that guy has qualms, he can whip him back in line - but ultimately it has not been enough to win anything

theres no surprise that since 2007 (the height of Alonsos hubris) he has won nothing, while Lewis has and is doing. Alonso wastes too much resource and now the smarter TPS are starting to do the maths and realise that he is just too needy compared to the final product. Yes he has raised ferrari from STR level singlehandely but who cares about coming second, to take them any higher is where the real fight is and MM is just about to whip the emperors clothes off. Thats the one thing Alonso didnt anticipate - a proper hardnosed result oriented merchant, who would laugh hysterically if told to keep Massa on or to hire only Italians or even his own son or to keep Alonso sweet

[Roth]

I'd agree but for Red Bull's dominance and Alonso's abilty to drag any of those Ferrari's into serious contention since he joined. Nobody has won anything
but RB. You can't refute the freakish Vettel run and also knock the guy who twice came within a handful of points of being WC during the same period.

[CookinFlat6]

My point is that if alonso was really that complete he woyuld have manipulated Montedodo into doing what it took to beat RBR. Alonso comandeers the whole team but doesnt take it far enough to the point of meaningful success. ergo, he has been unsuccessful with his approach since 2007. He rocked up at Mclaren with this approach and fell flat on his face.
Since then it has been the same old Teflonso at work (on track its a pleasure to see him hustle a donkey round the track close to the far superior RBR) howwever lewis given the relaible car alonso has had would have at least as good results and doesnt require the whole team subjugated around his needs and plans which then turned out not to go far enough
If he had MM there at the start I reckon they could have a couple of titles, but its too late for that, and MnM will have a perfect foil in Seb who will be saying yessir, how high? before long and maybe getting the results when and if MnM is allowed to whip the team into shape

[Roth]

Well obviously Lewis would be atleast three times champion by now at Ferrari. Goes without saying.

I see where you are coming from, and as I said earlier the backroom stuff doesn't interest me much, so I don't really absorb it, but you seem to be taking a similar line
to Hughes in which he has brought this upon himself; which to me is baffling, partly because we can never know anywhere near the full picture, and small increments
of fortune at a few races was the difference for two years. It's a perception problem. Had he won those two extra titles would we be singing the same tune with
basically the same set-up and attitudes at the team?

[racechick]

We can't know the full picture. And I take the point you made earlier about team managers going the extra mile to accommodate a superior talent . Teams need to get the best they can afford of everything ( engines, engineers, designers, To's, drivers) if they're serious about winning, and if a bit of ego massaging is required to secure one of the best drivers on grid so be it. But there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Alonso's toy throwing and requests for number one status were tolerated, if not acquiesced to at McLaren, right up to the point where he tried to blackmail the team. At that point he'd crossed the line and his position became untenable. Maybe he's crossed the line again? Maybe M&M man is a whole lot less tolerant ? Maybe Alonso just wanted out? We don't really know, can only hypothesise, But like Cookie pointed out, Alonso is running out of teams to fall out with.

[What's Burning?]

Vettel was ahead by a country mile in 2011 and 2013, but in 2010 there were five drivers in contention for the WDC at the last race. In 2012, McLaren lost the championship for Lewis and perhaps for themselves as well. They had the machine and the driver to put it together and they didn't.

Credit to Ferrari, the lost 2012 season at McLaren would have easily been converted into a championship at Ferrari were they in the same position.

[racechick]

Yes I have to agree with that WB.

[sagi58]

...Credit to Ferrari, the lost 2012 season at McLaren would have easily been converted into a championship at Ferrari were they in the same position.

I'm not sure what you mean... even if it sort of sounds like a compliment!

[racechick]

It's being reported on the BBC that Alonso is deciding whether to join McLaren or take a year out to try to get a Mercedes drive at the end if 2015. Pretty much what we've all been suggesting that his only real options are. But his chance of the Merc drive I'd say are slim.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29604437

I saw a few reports over the weekend on twitter that Alonso had already approached Merc and been told no. No sources, just rumours. The most substantial one that I saw a few times, said that Alonso and Ferrari had approached Merc asking for a straight swap of Alonso for Hamilton. Merc said no.

[Jabberwocky]

I think sitting a year out would be detrimental to his career

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

[racechick]

I agree Jab, things move on, new stars are made. He needs to be in a car.

[sagi58]

I think sitting a year out would be detrimental to his career

It's not like he's Kimi, eh?

(( kidding!!))