Renault have out-developed Merc

By rejecting the extra development Ferrari and Horner stifled competition

Yes
5
71%
No
2
29%
 
Total votes: 7

What's Burning?
Banned
Posts: 21486
Joined: 24 Feb 10, 00:09
Favourite Driver: Lewis Hamilton, Nico Hulkenberg
Favourite Team: Porsche North America, Porsche LMP1
Location: PULL IN CASE OF FIRE

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by What's Burning? »

Enzo is thanking Mercedes from his grave, Ferrari need all the help they can get.
"I don't want to be part of a forum where everyone has differing opinions." Boom...
RyRy
Posts: 1115
Joined: 30 Aug 09, 11:53

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by RyRy »

sagi58 wrote:
RyRy wrote:Mercedes have already confirmed they're going to do a big token spend just after the next test to improve a number of things for Melbourne

It's a no brainer why because they get to reduce the amount Honda will get.

:clap: What a lovely way to nurture competition in F1!!


Why would you nurture a rival... do you not even have a grain of understanding about how sports & businesses work?

Mercedes are doing everything by the rules, they're in it to win it and are doing the logical smart thing to do.

They've already been given the short straw and suffered because of Ferrari and Red Bull's tantrums, they are just doing what ANY other team would do in their position.

This IS competition, the other teams need to find more loopholes, more advancements, more improvements, more ideas and more importantly they need to build better engines. If you can't keep up with someone it's your own fault.


That's like saying when I used to run a lot and compete against others in athletics that I should only run with 90% effort just so I didn't beat the others by much...
Hammer278
Banned
Posts: 13126
Joined: 29 Mar 10, 10:05
Favourite Driver: The best in Formula 1.
Favourite Team: BMW DTM
Location: Land of Petronas

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by Hammer278 »

[youtube]xSLlZh9yelk[/youtube]
Breaking News: Lewis Hamilton has officially overtaken The Fonz in race wins. With 88 races less. Lol (Without a specially built blown diffuser, illegal front wing, preferential treatment)
CookinFlat6
Banned
Posts: 7206
Joined: 21 Apr 12, 21:22
Favourite Driver: Hamiltonian
Favourite Team: HDL
Location: Banned

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by CookinFlat6 »

RyRy wrote:
sagi58 wrote:
RyRy wrote:Mercedes have already confirmed they're going to do a big token spend just after the next test to improve a number of things for Melbourne

It's a no brainer why because they get to reduce the amount Honda will get.

:clap: What a lovely way to nurture competition in F1!!


Why would you nurture a rival... do you not even have a grain of understanding about how sports & businesses work?

Mercedes are doing everything by the rules, they're in it to win it and are doing the logical smart thing to do.

They've already been given the short straw and suffered because of Ferrari and Red Bull's tantrums, they are just doing what ANY other team would do in their position.

This IS competition, the other teams need to find more loopholes, more advancements, more improvements, more ideas and more importantly they need to build better engines. If you can't keep up with someone it's your own fault.


That's like saying when I used to run a lot and compete against others in athletics that I should only run with 90% effort just so I didn't beat the others by much...


Dont hold back Ry, theres only so much a chap is expected to take

Its truly remarkably that Ry, the most pacifist and neutral guy on here is driven to this after years of politely putting up with the dog poop

Image
Image
2014 Monster 26x Bookie Mugger
2015, 2016 WDC: LH44
RyRy
Posts: 1115
Joined: 30 Aug 09, 11:53

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by RyRy »

CookinFlat6 wrote:
RyRy wrote:
sagi58 wrote:
RyRy wrote:Mercedes have already confirmed they're going to do a big token spend just after the next test to improve a number of things for Melbourne

It's a no brainer why because they get to reduce the amount Honda will get.

:clap: What a lovely way to nurture competition in F1!!


Why would you nurture a rival... do you not even have a grain of understanding about how sports & businesses work?

Mercedes are doing everything by the rules, they're in it to win it and are doing the logical smart thing to do.

They've already been given the short straw and suffered because of Ferrari and Red Bull's tantrums, they are just doing what ANY other team would do in their position.

This IS competition, the other teams need to find more loopholes, more advancements, more improvements, more ideas and more importantly they need to build better engines. If you can't keep up with someone it's your own fault.


That's like saying when I used to run a lot and compete against others in athletics that I should only run with 90% effort just so I didn't beat the others by much...


Dont hold back Ry, theres only so much a chap is expected to take

Its truly remarkably that Ry, the most pacifist and neutral guy on here is driven to this after years of politely putting up with the dog poop

Image


I can't understand how or why he would even say that... is he being serious or just trolling?
CookinFlat6
Banned
Posts: 7206
Joined: 21 Apr 12, 21:22
Favourite Driver: Hamiltonian
Favourite Team: HDL
Location: Banned

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by CookinFlat6 »

Its either the least intelligent trolling attempt in the world or the least intelligent joke in the world

Or it could be a genuine comment that, well, lets just say, is not the most intelligent deduction in the world
Image
2014 Monster 26x Bookie Mugger
2015, 2016 WDC: LH44
User avatar
sagi58
Posts: 10203
Joined: 23 Jul 13, 22:05
Favourite Driver: He Who Drives for Ferrari!!
Favourite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Location: 5 miles North of "X"!

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by sagi58 »

RyRy wrote:Why would you nurture a rival... do you not even have a grain of understanding about how sports & businesses work?

Mercedes are doing everything by the rules, they're in it to win it and are doing the logical smart thing to do.

They've already been given the short straw and suffered because of Ferrari and Red Bull's tantrums, they are just doing what ANY other team would do in their position.

This IS competition, the other teams need to find more loopholes, more advancements, more improvements, more ideas and more importantly they need to build better engines. If you can't keep up with someone it's your own fault.


That's like saying when I used to run a lot and compete against others in athletics that I should only run with 90% effort just so I didn't beat the others by much...


RyRy, there is no reason to nurture a rival. You're right on that. My comment was just a reminder that competition is what F1 is about. At the moment, the competition is stifled to an extent with these development freezes.

Yes, Mercedes did everything right. Yes, the rules have been changed. Are the rules the same for everyone? Yes, they are. Do they stop other teams from catching up with Mercedes? Absolutely! Does that mean Mercedes should agree that the rules are stifling? No, they shouldn't. Would other teams do the same thing? Yes, they would. Mercedes is being justly lauded by their fans; but, if the shoe were on the other foot, any other team would be called a cheat, by those same fans. Sad; but, true.

So, when the fans of other teams insist that competition isn't actually allowed by the rules, insisting that the rules are the same for everyone doesn't mean that competition is allowed. That Mercedes falls back on the excuse that it's about saving money, let's be serious and admit that they aren't being completely altruistic in their hurry to keep the advantage they have. And, when other teams do find loopholes that allow them to become more competitive, fans shouldn't feel the need to ridicule those teams because they didn't get it right the first time. Rather, they should accept that competition is the essence of good sportsmanship.

p.s. No one is asking Mercedes to run at 90%; but, to use your own analogy of a runner, it would be like you winning the first race in a group of events and then being given a lap head start for all other events, just because you won the first one. Mercedes had an easy time of it, last year and, as much fun as it was for their fans, it's time to allow the other teams the opportunity to compete. That's not to say Mercedes can't keep developing; but, it is to say that these freezes are stifling that spirit.
ImageAfter the agony of defeat, success will be sweet!
CookinFlat6
Banned
Posts: 7206
Joined: 21 Apr 12, 21:22
Favourite Driver: Hamiltonian
Favourite Team: HDL
Location: Banned

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by CookinFlat6 »

sagi58 wrote:So, when the fans of other teams insist that competition isn't actually allowed by the rules, insisting that the rules are the same for everyone doesn't mean that competition is allowed.


How exactly is competition disallowed? Lets keep it simple, there are 8 teams COMPETING, please provide some facts for your factual claim
Image
2014 Monster 26x Bookie Mugger
2015, 2016 WDC: LH44
RyRy
Posts: 1115
Joined: 30 Aug 09, 11:53

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by RyRy »

sagi58 wrote:.At the moment, the competition is stifled to an extent with these development freezes.


No they're not, competition is exactly the same as usual. They're all trying to find things to catch up to Mercedes and ultimately failing. The limitation is to stop teams spending absurd amounts of money and it's working, of course the cost last year and this year are up they're always up every time we have big changes.

sagi58 wrote:Do they stop other teams from catching up with Mercedes? Absolutely! Does that mean Mercedes should agree that the rules are stifling? No, they shouldn't. Would other teams do the same thing? Yes, they would. Mercedes is being justly lauded by their fans; but, if the shoe were on the other foot, any other team would be called a cheat, by those same fans. Sad; but, true.

It doesn't stop them from catching up, in all likelihood without the limitations Mercedes would still maintain the similar gap just everyone would have spent absurd amounts of money.

Wrong, I'm no one's fan. I have no real favorite so I am pretty unbiased. If let's say Ferrari had got the jump I'm certain the majority of the Williams, McLaren, Mercedes, Force India and Sauber fans would be humble and accept their team has lost the first competition, they'd be patient and wait for their teams to catch up.

Ferrari and Red Bull are by far the two biggest tantrum throwing teams and fan bases.

sagi58 wrote:So, when the fans of other teams insist that competition isn't actually allowed by the rules, insisting that the rules are the same for everyone doesn't mean that competition is allowed. That Mercedes falls back on the excuse that it's about saving money, let's be serious and admit that they aren't being completely altruistic in their hurry to keep the advantage they have. And, when other teams do find loopholes that allow them to become more competitive, fans shouldn't feel the need to ridicule those teams because they didn't get it right the first time. Rather, they should accept that competition is the essence of good sportsmanship.

You know that the loophole find it clutching straws and that they are pathetic for trying it.

sagi58 wrote:p.s. No one is asking Mercedes to run at 90%; but, to use your own analogy of a runner, it would be like you winning the first race in a group of events and then being given a lap head start for all other events, just because you won the first one. Mercedes had an easy time of it, last year and, as much fun as it was for their fans, it's time to allow the other teams the opportunity to compete. That's not to say Mercedes can't keep developing; but, it is to say that these freezes are stifling that spirit.


You're analogy is even worse, Mercedes aren't getting a benefit like that, they are a runner that trained hard and found a nutritious way run harder and faster.
User avatar
racechick
Missing Mod
Posts: 23581
Joined: 03 Aug 07, 11:08
Favourite Driver: Lewis Hamilton
Favourite Team: Mercedes AMG Petronas
Location: Nottinghham UK

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by racechick »

I think you said it all RyRy. Saves me having to task my brain early in the morning :) .

Now coming from a neutral, surely these words carry some weight? No? Because really there is no logic to the continued accusations towards Mercedes. And using the word cheats is beyond belief. :yikes: They haven't cheated.


Sagi your running analogy is WAY, WAY off the mark. mercedes aren't being given a lap head start. It's more like this.......

All the runners and race teams were told of a competition that would take place in a couple of years time...

Runner A turned up with state of the art running kit, a perfectly honed body and a running style to compliment the competition in question.

Runner B turned up reasonably well toned but with inferior kit, they realised their error and have worked hard to rectify the issue.

Runner C overslept and forgot their kit. Then they sacked their trainer. And the next trainer.

I don't think I need to point out which runner is which.
You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Abe Lincoln


Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. Abe Lincoln
What's Burning?
Banned
Posts: 21486
Joined: 24 Feb 10, 00:09
Favourite Driver: Lewis Hamilton, Nico Hulkenberg
Favourite Team: Porsche North America, Porsche LMP1
Location: PULL IN CASE OF FIRE

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by What's Burning? »

Tifuzzy logic.
"I don't want to be part of a forum where everyone has differing opinions." Boom...
User avatar
sagi58
Posts: 10203
Joined: 23 Jul 13, 22:05
Favourite Driver: He Who Drives for Ferrari!!
Favourite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Location: 5 miles North of "X"!

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by sagi58 »

I will obviously be in the minority; but, that doesn't trouble me.

racechick wrote:...And using the word cheats is beyond belief. :yikes: They haven't cheated...


For the record, I am not the one using the word!!
ImageAfter the agony of defeat, success will be sweet!
Ichabod
Posts: 406
Joined: 01 Sep 10, 14:50

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by Ichabod »

sagi58 wrote:Yes, Mercedes did everything right. Yes, the rules have been changed. Are the rules the same for everyone? Yes, they are. Do they stop other teams from catching up with Mercedes? Absolutely! Does that mean Mercedes should agree that the rules are stifling? No, they shouldn't. Would other teams do the same thing? Yes, they would. Mercedes is being justly lauded by their fans; but, if the shoe were on the other foot, any other team would be called a cheat, by those same fans. Sad; but, true.


Feel free to deny you ever used the word :rolleyes:
CookinFlat6
Banned
Posts: 7206
Joined: 21 Apr 12, 21:22
Favourite Driver: Hamiltonian
Favourite Team: HDL
Location: Banned

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by CookinFlat6 »

sagi58 wrote:I will obviously be in the minority; but, that doesn't trouble me.

racechick wrote:...And using the word cheats is beyond belief. :yikes: They haven't cheated...


For the record, I am not the one using the word!!


You are simply clueless

You dont even know the difference between a team and an engine

I asked you a simple question you cant even answer and instead you irritate more and more generally laid back members with your inanities

How is there no competition? There are 8 teams ready to race in 2 weeks, can you tell us whats wrong with the competition ?
Image
2014 Monster 26x Bookie Mugger
2015, 2016 WDC: LH44
Hammer278
Banned
Posts: 13126
Joined: 29 Mar 10, 10:05
Favourite Driver: The best in Formula 1.
Favourite Team: BMW DTM
Location: Land of Petronas

Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by Hammer278 »

Sagi now 7 feet under, and I fear her spade hasn't hit the bottom as yet.
Breaking News: Lewis Hamilton has officially overtaken The Fonz in race wins. With 88 races less. Lol (Without a specially built blown diffuser, illegal front wing, preferential treatment)