Renault have out-developed Merc

By rejecting the extra development Ferrari and Horner stifled competition

Yes
5
71%
No
2
29%
 
Total votes: 7

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Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by CookinFlat6 »

According to Renault (the engine makers themselves) they have out developed Merc recently to cut the deficit from last year. They have also admitted that their problem last year was not working well enough with their customer teams (an advantage Ferrari had as well as Merc and now McLaren) and not preparing well enough or making better engineering.

This year they are confident they have addressed these things and have actually started to to it better than Merc, hence the catching up

Its fantastic to see such a determined competitor, one that gets up off the floor after an early knock down and attacks again. Much better than appealing to the referee to change the rules or to abandon the competition. Hopefully Ferrari are learning from this also.

Now lets remember that Renault was a very reliable engine last year and we know Merc have focussed on improving reliability. Renault say they are confident of reducing the 10% power deficit by HALF, so imagine they had the extra tokens offered by Merc as a compromise (which was about 10% extra development IIRC) before the unfreeze, and rejected by Ferrari and Horner, would we have seen Red Bull challenging Merc this year, or even beating them?

in other words did Horner and Ferrari effectively stifle Renault?

http://planetf1.com/driver/55667788/33352/Renault-We-can-reduce-deficit-to-Merc
Last edited by CookinFlat6 on 25 Feb 15, 00:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by racechick »

Oh Mr.Horner and Ferrari what have you done! :thud: you've stifled competition! :yikes: You've not let Renault catch up when Mercedes offered them a chance. Now some people might find the season boring because of that. Oh dear oh dear! That was a bit silly. :P
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by sagi58 »

Why isn't McLaren/Honda included in the poll?
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by Jabberwocky »

I think we can not really know until the 1st race

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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by CookinFlat6 »

According to Will Buxton, Mercedes have caused Lotus to instantly become more competitive

The shift from Renault to Mercedes power has paid immediate dividends for Lotus. Reliable, consistent and fast, almost every driver you speak to in the paddock will tell you that the Enstone team is going to be a challenger this year.


As Renault have been held back from developing more by Ferrari, it appears that Merc are the main driver for development, progress and competitiveness (on track)

As Lotus have dumped the Ferrari stifled Renault engine they can now concentrate on building a great car without worrying about having to compete in off track politics

Its increasingly obvious why one engine builder has more customers than the others put together, especially when the others are holding back from extra development and proposing COMPLETE freezes on further tech dvelopments and even a return to old inefficient engineering
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by sagi58 »

CookinFlat6 wrote:According to Will Buxton, Mercedes have caused Lotus to instantly become more competitive

The shift from Renault to Mercedes power has paid immediate dividends for Lotus. Reliable, consistent and fast, almost every driver you speak to in the paddock will tell you that the Enstone team is going to be a challenger this year.


As Renault have been held back from developing more by Ferrari, it appears that Merc are the main driver for development, progress and competitiveness (on track)

As Lotus have dumped the Ferrari stifled Renault engine they can now concentrate on building a great car without worrying about having to compete in off track politics

Its increasingly obvious why one engine builder has more customers than the others put together, especially when the others are holding back from extra development and proposing COMPLETE freezes on further tech dvelopments and even a return to old inefficient engineering


Although, that is a direct quote, I must have found a different link:

Oh what a lovely war

Buxton had some complimentary views about Ferrari's testing, thusfar.

oooops... the rest of that comment, wasn't actually Buxton's opinion!!
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by CookinFlat6 »

Bit early for the mea culpa :yikes:

Normally its starts with the initial meaningless attemped put down then proceeds to the 30 pages of inanity before the final tearful mea culpa and reports of ridicule to the feds

Now the process has been truncated :thumbup:

in that case perhaps I am not needed to post at all :drink:
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by RyRy »

Lotus are a car to watch this season, I personally can see them being up the front with Williams
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by sagi58 »

CookinFlat6 wrote:...in that case perhaps I am not needed to post at all :drink:

:yikes:
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by racechick »

RyRy wrote:Lotus are a car to watch this season, I personally can see them being up the front with Williams

I had them pretty high in the predictions thread. :wink:
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by CookinFlat6 »

Lets face it, they have a history of punching far above their weight, and have produced some real innovations.

Who can forget them thrashing Ferrari despite an estimated 1/1187th of the budget. Its also a testament to the Lotus management and in particular the big cuddly but clever Frenchman now at McLaren, that Kimi gave them his best efforts for no pay, while he would literally rather go for a sh!t than drive well at Ferrari on the joint biggest wage in history

Yup Lotus with a proper engine are no longer being held back for futile political reasons by Horner and Mattibene
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by RyRy »

They might have "out-developed" merc but haven't they used way more of their tokens so far, Mercedes plan to use the majority and maybe even all of their tokens before Melbourne just to prevent Honda from upgrading as much after all Honda are their biggest potential threat and Mercedes want to reduce the number of tokens Honda receives (average of Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault token usage)
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by CookinFlat6 »

We are taking Renault at their word, and thy must have spies in the Merc camp or a webcam on the wall or something to be so confident they have out developed Merc, by reducing the engine deficit by even 1% let alone 5%. Such a shame they were stifled by Ferrari and prevented from grabbing free EXTRA tokens. It would have been tough for the French company to accept the help of Mercs discarded ex engine building boss. Almost like they chucked in the towel, so it makes sense that they must have strong evidence that they have been better at engineering than Merc since the last homologation.

But as you say, its possible Merc are yet to deploy their own tokens, although I dont think they will be too worried about Honda having an extra 6 or even 10 tokens, because by the time they can use them on a car that can complete a whole race, Merc will be likely testing 2016 parts in free practice with the 2015 double locked up in a secure non Red Bull built cabinet back in the Stuttgart visitors center

Talking about trophy cabinents Ferrari are said to be building the best cabinets in the world - well so would anyone given 50 years deadline :hehe:
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by RyRy »

CookinFlat6 wrote:But as you say, its possible Merc are yet to deploy their own tokens, although I dont think they will be too worried about Honda having an extra 6 or even 10 tokens, because by the time they can use them on a car that can complete a whole race, Merc will be likely testing 2016 parts in free practice with the 2015 double locked up in a secure non Red Bull built cabinet back in the Stuttgart visitors center

Talking about trophy cabinents Ferrari are said to be building the best cabinets in the world - well so would anyone given 50 years deadline :hehe:


Mercedes have already confirmed they're going to do a big token spend just after the next test to improve a number of things for Melbourne

It's a no brainer why because they get to reduce the amount Honda will get.
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Re: Renault have out-developed Merc

Post by sagi58 »

RyRy wrote:Mercedes have already confirmed they're going to do a big token spend just after the next test to improve a number of things for Melbourne

It's a no brainer why because they get to reduce the amount Honda will get.

:clap: What a lovely way to nurture competition in F1!!
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