How is a title won?

Setting aside the premise that a title is decided by the number of points accumulated...

I prefer the season go down to the last race, thus the double points system in place at Abu Dhabi is a brainstorm.
0
No votes
I prefer the season go down to the last race, without the artificial boost of double points.
4
100%
My heart would prefer the title be decided one to two races before the end of the season.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 4

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How is a title won?

Post by sagi58 »

So many titles have been decided in the last race, since I've been following F1.
But, I can't see it as being that simple, when it comes to winning a title.

I understand that a title can be decided in "one" race; but, in effect, is it earned in that particular race?

And, yes, I can understand that there may be one race which is the turning point in a season; but, again,
does that mean that's the race where a driver can be declared the winner for the year?

Doesn't it take an entire season to be at the top to win?

Edited to add the poll...
Last edited by sagi58 on 06 Nov 14, 11:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by Jabberwocky »

I suppose the bottom line and only line is "who scored the most points over the season"

Look at Keke Roseberg championship year, he won only 1 race, but he was consistent high finishing in most races all year. Sound familiar
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by racechick »

I think it's a case of perspective. People see it as all riding on the last race ( if it's gone to the wire) because that is the final nail in the coffin, or hand on the trophy, depending how that race goes for you.

But in actual fact the race could be said just as easily to have pivoted around an action earlier in the year. A clumsy overtake and loss of points, a wrong tyre call , a spin out. That could be the thing that actually looses the title. People tend to remember the errors and dramas that occur towards the end of the season and forget the earlier ones.

Best way to win the title is to score as many points, be as consistent as possible all through the season.
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by What's Burning? »

Hey where's the poll?

A title can't be won in one race.
A title can be lost in one race.
A driver has to be in a position to win a title in the last race in order to win it.

So if a driver is constant enough to be in a situation to win a title at the end of the season it generally means they drove well. It doesn't mean that a driver winning from that position earned the title.

In 2010, there were four drivers able to mathematically able to win a championship at the last race of the season. The fact that four of them could win it certainly didn't mean that they all deserved it. If you "win" something and the only way for you to win is to have another driver fail through some type of extraneous circumstance then IMO that's a benefactor, not a winner of a championship.

What you are not taking into account Sagi, in your machinations is the fact that the Mercedes is such a dominant car, that it allows for mistakes to be made or mechanical issues to be encountered and still award the driver making those mistakes 15 or 18 points. The situation was no different at Red Bull for a few years. Webber always finished 2nd or 3rd int he season because of the power in that car. Barichello saw the same, affect him in 2009. What's clear is that Rosberg is outwardly a better driver than both Webber and Barichello when compared to their teammates to be able to put himself in a position that he's still close enough to be a benefactor.

So in effect, what we have this season is one driver earning a title because he's year in and year out shown that he is consistently ranked amongst the best drivers in the sport (regardless of the car he's driven) and doing exactly what his fans anticipated and the other driver having such an overpowering car, is just able to outscore any other driver on the grid bar his teammate. If you didn't become aware of this effect in Sochi, then I am unable to explain it any better than that and I doubt anyone else could.
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by CookinFlat6 »

Also, to the casual observer the title decided in the last race by a point is sometimes wrongly thought of as if it was a tennis tie break, when instead its generally due to the strategy over the final hurdle and as RC said, 1 point more than the others is the important metric

Also its only at this stage that incidents can truly be said to have made a difference, although previous ones will have contributed

simply because, any incident during the season will affect dynamically all the other players and will be discounted overall. So when Massa says it was the pitstop refuelling Ferrari fiasco that caused him the title, its complete straw grasping as all the other competitors discounted the incident and adjusted towards winning. So I think its not meaningful to say an incident in the past, at least a race before, after which the others had a chance to consider and discount it has any bearing beyond a mere contibution.

Pivotal moments, when some one loses heart or momentum or gains confidence etc etc are different
IMHO
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by sagi58 »

What's Burning? wrote:Hey where's the poll?...


My apologies; but, I couldn't decide how to word it so that it wasn't misleading.

Any ideas?
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by sagi58 »

What's Burning? wrote:...What you are not taking into account Sagi, in your machinations is the fact that the Mercedes is such a dominant car, that it allows for mistakes to be made or mechanical issues to be encountered and still award the driver making those mistakes 15 or 18 points...

I don't appreciate the insinuation that I am trying to get anyone to admit anything.
It was an honest question, in view of the fact, in the relatively short period of time
that I have been following F1, so many championships have gone down to the wire.

Of course, you are welcome to your own opinion.
Just understand that in this case, it is not based on fact.
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by What's Burning? »

sagi58 wrote:
What's Burning? wrote:...What you are not taking into account Sagi, in your machinations is the fact that the Mercedes is such a dominant car, that it allows for mistakes to be made or mechanical issues to be encountered and still award the driver making those mistakes 15 or 18 points...

I don't appreciate the insinuation that I am trying to get anyone to admit anything.
It was an honest question, in view of the fact, in the relatively short period of time
that I have been following F1, so many championships have gone down to the wire.

Of course, you are welcome to your own opinion.
Just understand that in this case, it is not based on fact.


I don't appreciate your not appreciating my very good (If I do say so myself) explanation to your existentialish question.

You didn't ask a question pe se, you posed a series of ideas in question form, put together. Not sure how long you've been following F1 most of the time it doesn't go down to the last race, maybe not even half the time and certainly not when one team is dominant.

So if you don't appreciate my response, then perhaps you were just itching for a fight where you'd counterpoint someone and you were not really looking to discuss ideas at all. As a matter of fact, you didn't respond to anyone's comments! :yikes: Just zeroed in on your non appreciation of my work. If you ask in "poll" a non specific question in the hopes of better defining your point of view, then you don't even discuss the content of the responses, it makes your intent even more suspect. Follow?
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by sagi58 »

What's Burning? wrote:...Follow?


Oh, I follow, just not down garden paths.

What I objected to is your use of the word "machination" which, be definition
depicts my post as being some sort of nefarious plot designed to manipulate.

As for your "work"... great example; but, as I've said many a time, since I have
been watching, a number of titles have been decided in the last race.

((i.e., 2006 when Schumi lost the title in the last couple of races;
2007 when Kimi won by one point; 2008 when Hamilton won by one point;
2009 when Button won in the last couple of races; 2010 when Vettel won
with four points over Alonso, in the last race...))
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by What's Burning? »

You propose an idea about the last race often being the deciding race and in your examples you provide seasons that the championship had been decided before the last race? It's a strange world this internet, a strange world. So I guess what you meant to ask was;

Q: Do championships tend to be decided towards the end of the season?
A: Yes
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by LRW »

What's Burning? wrote:You propose an idea about the last race often being the deciding race and in your examples you provide seasons that the championship had been decided before the last race? It's a strange world this internet, a strange world. So I guess what you meant to ask was;

Q: Do championships tend to be decided towards the end of the season?
A: Yes


So the poll should be:

Q: Do championships tend to be decided towards the end of the season?
A: Yes
B: No
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by sagi58 »

What's Burning? wrote:You propose an idea about the last race often being the deciding race and in your examples you provide seasons that the championship had been decided before the last race?...

The examples were of the seasons that I personally have watched, since I was responding to...
What's Burning? wrote:...Not sure how long you've been following F1 most of the time it doesn't go down to the last race, maybe not even half the time...
.
The examples I gave also include seasons that were decided at the last race:
sagi58 wrote:... but, as I've said many a time, since I have
been watching, a number of titles have been decided in the last race.

((i.e., 2006 when Schumi lost the title in the last couple of races;
2007 when Kimi won by one point; 2008 when Hamilton won by one point;
2009 when Button won in the last couple of races; 2010 when Vettel won
with four points over Alonso, in the last race
...))

Of course, I forgot to mention that infamous season where Hamilton
beat out Massa, albeit finishing 5th at Interlagos.
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by sagi58 »

LRW wrote:So the poll should be:

Q: Do championships tend to be decided towards the end of the season?
A: Yes
B: No


That's pretty obvious, no? :confused:

What I was wondering is more along the lines of the worthiness of a title won in that last race versus one that is won long before that.
I do understand that it is much more interesting and exciting for us as fans, if the title does go down to the wire; but, does that make the title any less worthy if it's won before that last race?

I believe the question is more qualitative (or existentialist as WB already referred to it as) than it is quantitative.

I think I just figured out how to word my poll question! Image
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by What's Burning? »

sagi58 wrote:What I was wondering is more along the lines of the worthiness of a title won in that last race versus one that is won long before that.


No, not a machination. Have you ever wondered about the worthiness of a loss or a horrible season?
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Re: How is a title won?

Post by LRW »

Its a difficult one to answer.

This year, because Our Lewis is in a strong position, Id rather he won it much sooner than the last race.

If its a year when none of my fave drivers are in contention, then I want it to go down to the last corner of the last race....
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