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[geetface9]

There is a lot of assumptions being made from the first test; I personally take nothing from these pre-season tests; how often do we see a team showing amazing promise only to see the tables turned come Australia?

That said, Newey's aggressive packaging of the technology can be detrimental, just look at the multiple KERS failures in previous years because Newey insisted on tighter packaging; which ultimate didn't stop the Red Bull charge!

I absolutely agree, and I posed a similar question earlier that everybody seemed to missed.

So who voted that RBR would win for the 5th time, and whats the reasoning behind this?

I did. Mainly because there was no "maybe" option and the rb10 absolutely cannot be discounted based on jerez. Also, the universe hates me and it would absolutely kill me to see vettel get a 5th title in row as much as each of the four previous championships did. You're starting to beat a dead horse. Merc and ferrari are manufacturers, built their engine and car together, rbr are customers, we get it. Counting red bull out already would still be completely silly, hence why I wish there was a "maybe" option This isn't newey's first time experiencing a big regulation change.

So I picked "no" 50% because I actually believe and 50% to chafe your bottom

[sagi58]

... there was no "maybe" option and the rb10 absolutely cannot be discounted based on jerez...

Which is why I haven't bothered to participate. The world is not black and white.
Red Bull don't look good now; but, they aren't going to lay down and die either.

As "they" say

[CookinFlat6]

So I picked "no" 50% because I actually believe and 50% to chafe your bottom

You're starting to beat a dead horse. Merc and ferrari are manufacturers, built their engine and car together, rbr are customers, we get it. Counting red bull out already would still be completely silly,

beating a dead horse would be to insist red bull can win despite the hard facts

We will ofcourse find out soon enough who is correct. Its just a shame that I am not able to profit from you if my analysis turns out to beat yours. For example if one is quick enough there are still people out there willing to place money 2/1 on Seb and RBR winning 2014, based on a status quo bias, lack of knowledge and emotionality. Unfortunately, these people are becoming fewer and fewer, limiting ones chance to profit from having superior knowledge and understanding

Anyway even if we cant compete with hard cash (unless ofcourse you were willing to place a straight bet of $100 with me on RBR) we can always look back in a few months to see whos 'hot air' is more informed

[CookinFlat6]

Is there a possibility that RBR went for a "better" design (per se) than caterham and it proved to not work in jerez? Maybe we're reading too much into this? I know with the reintroduction with KERS, RBR had significant issues with it because newey's designs were so tight and compact. Could this be a bit of the same?

I didnt respond to this earlier because it does not make any sense and i thought it best to allow you to think it through.
Ofcourse RBR went for a 'better' design. Design is an exercise in compromise. Otherwise everyone could design the perfect dream. So if its better in one way, it gets worse in another way. Payoffs is the word here. e.g. bigger cooling apertures = worse aerodynamics. I hope that is now clear

RBR had problems with Kers because of the compromise mentioned earlier, the payoff was worth it. But this time round, do YOU think the 'tightness' you mention was maybe too tight?

Thats what it means to mess up a design, the balance and pay off slope do not work.

So instead of blindly looking at the past and saying they were good last year and will be good this year, why not open your mind to the specific context in each case and then come up with the answer to RBR winning a 5th time

Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one, the more useful ones are those based on reasearch, knowledge, facts etc, and not just on a half baked emotion

So with that in mind, do you think RBR can start at Jerez to redesign their car and catch up and beat the 2 manufacturers?

[What's Burning?]

So I picked "no" 50% because I actually believe and 50% to chafe your bottom

Send him a roll of sandy toilet paper.

[NHcheese]

It doesn't end at 4. We're on page 5. nooooooooooo

[geetface9]

It doesn't end at 4. We're on page 5. nooooooooooo

[NHcheese]

no mor comments or we'll get to page six

[CookinFlat6]

I did.

So 1 out of 10 thinks RBR will win a fifth despite Jerez and this was a former RBR fan who is now a Ferrari fan

makes sense

[geetface9]

Is there a possibility that RBR went for a "better" design (per se) than caterham and it proved to not work in jerez? Maybe we're reading too much into this? I know with the reintroduction with KERS, RBR had significant issues with it because newey's designs were so tight and compact. Could this be a bit of the same?

I didnt respond to this earlier because it does not make any sense and i thought it best to allow you to think it through.
Ofcourse RBR went for a 'better' design. Design is an exercise in compromise. Otherwise everyone could design the perfect dream. So if its better in one way, it gets worse in another way. Payoffs is the word here. e.g. bigger cooling apertures = worse aerodynamics. I hope that is now clear

RBR had problems with Kers because of the compromise mentioned earlier, the payoff was worth it. But this time round, do YOU think the 'tightness' you mention was maybe too tight?

Thats what it means to mess up a design, the balance and pay off slope do not work.

So instead of blindly looking at the past and saying they were good last year and will be good this year, why not open your mind to the specific context in each case and then come up with the answer to RBR winning a 5th time

Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one, the more useful ones are those based on reasearch, knowledge, facts etc, and not just on a half baked emotion

So with that in mind, do you think RBR can start at Jerez to redesign their car and catch up and beat the 2 manufacturers?

Yes. Let's put it this way: I'm not blindly looking at the past and saying they were good last year and will be good this year. I'm looking in the past with both eyes open saying they've been in a similar situation, perhaps not to this degree, and they have still come out on top, four times in a row against the two manufacturers.

I hadn't thought of design being a compromise. I thought of it more as, "do we have the technology to shove all this stuff in a spot this small and still keep it cool enough to run well?" rather than a balance. Which is why I asked in the first place. I've never designed anything in my life so pardon my ineptitude, but this is where I come for tech info and I had hoped that someone could kindly help instead of glaze over my rudimentary thought process

[geetface9]

I did.

So 1 out of 10 thinks RBR will win a fifth despite Jerez and this was a former RBR fan who is now a Ferrari fan

makes sense

No no, I was never a red bull fan, just a huge webber fan. Love webber, hate vettel. I like alonso and was very indifferent towards massa, and I picked ferrari as my favorite because of alonso and because I love seeing red win almost as much as I loved seeing webber win. There's no way I was ever a red bull fan Don't misconstrue me for tifosi either cuz I like seeing rosberg and hamilton put the silver arrows at the top

[CookinFlat6]

Don't misconstrue me for tifosi either cuz I like seeing rosberg and hamilton put the silver arrows at the top

I figure you as a sensible chap

[What's Burning?]

I wish there was a "maybe" option

Hey Geet, I didn't put in a "maybe" option because there can on only two outcomes, yes or no. The maybe would be an appropriate choice since it encompass the overwhelming majority of of situations that occur in the universe;
Am I going to get laid tonight? Maybe.
Is Vladimir Putin going to sing a shirtless ballad as part of the Sochi Olympics opening ceremonies? Maybe.

This poll however is not one of them.

[geetface9]

I wish there was a "maybe" option

Hey Geet, I didn't put in a "maybe" option because there can on only two outcomes, yes or no. The maybe would be an appropriate choice since it encompass the overwhelming majority of of situations that occur in the universe;
Am I going to get laid tonight? Maybe.
Is Vladimir Putin going to sing a shirtless ballad as part of the Sochi Olympics opening ceremonies? Maybe.

This poll however is not one of them.

Fair enough! Vladimir Putin singing a shirtless ballad at the opening ceremonies? That'd be quite the show!!!

[geetface9]

Don't misconstrue me for tifosi either cuz I like seeing rosberg and hamilton put the silver arrows at the top

I figure you as a sensible chap

I try to be, sometimes