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What will the quali stats look like at the end of the season?

Lewis style, Button will only qualify higher if Mag has a problem
5
31%
Close with Button faster on average
5
31%
Sergio style, They will be close, with Mag edging it
3
19%
Other (explain)
3
19%
#390378
That's because F1 is not only about the car, it's not only about the driver, it's not only about the team,
nor is it only about luck. It's a combination of all the right things happening at the right time.

Thus, to simplistically blame Whitmarsh or Button for McLaren's "not so great season" is about looking
for a scapegoat.

How you can say that with a straight face while other threads are littered with you blaming Pirelli and Massa for Ferrari's not so great season is a true skill. :thumbup:

Easy! Because I've taken into account EACH of those four factors that I mentioned.
The factors that didn't help matters, at Ferrari last year, were the car's handling of
the CHANGED Pirelli tires and Massa, the teammate who didn't score nearly as many
points as were necessary for the WCC.

I can repeat that, if you like? :thumbup:
#390389
That's because F1 is not only about the car, it's not only about the driver, it's not only about the team,
nor is it only about luck. It's a combination of all the right things happening at the right time.

Thus, to simplistically blame Whitmarsh or Button for McLaren's "not so great season" is about looking
for a scapegoat.

How you can say that with a straight face while other threads are littered with you blaming Pirelli and Massa for Ferrari's not so great season is a true skill. :thumbup:


I thought everyone knew Pirelli did a rubbish job last year :hehe:


I thought everyone knew Whitmarsh did a rubbish job. That's why he's gone.
#390390
First of all, your portryal of Ron Dennis as a victim of fraudulent behaviour is completely laughable.
Secondly, even IF he was ordered to stay an arm's length away from the F1 team, there is NO way
you could convince anyone that he wasn't privy to the contract offered to Button who, at the time,
was the reigning world champion. It would seem to me that all the hoopla surrounding McLaren's
"new" all-English line-up would have been hard to miss, especially in-house.


:rofl::rofl:
He wasnt ordered to stay away, he was legally obliged to accept the decisions made by the board appointed CEO - thats what caused a power struggle - which he won

You must have not worked out yet that apart from the original contract signed when Button first joined up (when he was as you said WDC - yet the wage was lower than Lewis') - 2 years later Whitmarsh increased his wage to 16 mill in a NEW contract, just before he proposed cutting Hamiltons contract to 12 mill.

Sometimes its better to gather the facts that are freely available before arguing a case :thumbup:
#390425
2007 had a current and genuine WDC as teammate to a rookie, but the parallel remains

We saw how Perez caused Button to lose some composure, I suspect Mag will completely wreck his reputation and force him into retirement
#390430
2007 had a current and genuine WDC as teammate to a rookie, but the parallel remains

We saw how Perez caused Button to lose some composure, I suspect Mag will completely wreck his reputation and force him into retirement


I really don't see that happening this year, even with his domination in 3.5 last year
#390432
A rookie coming into McLaren with an established WDC as teammate, history does repeat itself.


This is no comparison, if Hamilton managed to make Alonso aka 2x champ sweat, Mag would need to clearly BEAT his new teammate in every aspect, qual, points, faster laps, etc. IMHO even in McLaren everyone would realize that they have a :duckie: in wolf's clothing (going by Paffett's pre testing comments about how Mag will "fire up" Button) and Mag will be under pressure if he finds himself behind Button after the first 3 races.

Hamilton managed to get past his 2x wdc teammate (a real champ) by the first corner of the first race, that's the yardstick. The pressure is on, and Mag probably realizes this. Hence his two spins in the space of 15 minutes in Jerez. :D
#390473
Watch. He will humiliate Button, winning the WDC, who will leave, welcoming Alonso. Then they will end 2015 on the same points and top of constructors but disqualified while Kimi takes the title.
#390482
I wouldn't like to say who will be faster based on one pre-season test; but one thing is for sure, Button needs to step up his game from last season; the man himself said as much at the end of last season.

On paper; a 14 year veteran world champion versus a first year rookie, Button should show Magnussen the way to go; but who knows; I'm interested to see if Button can step up his game in 2014!
#390485
Perez was as fast as Button, he out qualified him and was faster in most races in the latter part of the season. The team must have reason to believe Mag is way faster than Perez
What remains is his impetuousness, inexperience, basically his propensity for making mistakes.
Button with 14 years experience driving within the cars limits shoyuld make less mistakes

What was so astounding about Lewis is that he made no more errors in his first year than the reigning 2x WDc

Already we have seen Mag push too hard, like Perez did last year. I hope Mag realises that Button has 1 more year at Mclaren and is not really a benchmark, and is not hassled into 'getting his elbows out' like the last guy said to Perez

If that happens I have no doubt Mag will plaster button as far as quali and highest finishing position (when he actually finishes) Button will drive around in his comfort zone harvesting mid grid team points and ron will toss him out, maybe even before the end of the season
#390530
First of all, your portryal of Ron Dennis as a victim of fraudulent behaviour is completely laughable.
Secondly, even IF he was ordered to stay an arm's length away from the F1 team, there is NO way
you could convince anyone that he wasn't privy to the contract offered to Button who, at the time,
was the reigning world champion. It would seem to me that all the hoopla surrounding McLaren's
"new" all-English line-up would have been hard to miss, especially in-house.


:rofl::rofl:
He wasnt ordered to stay away, he was legally obliged to accept the decisions made by the board appointed CEO - thats what caused a power struggle - which he won

You must have not worked out yet that apart from the original contract signed when Button first joined up (when he was as you said WDC - yet the wage was lower than Lewis') - 2 years later Whitmarsh increased his wage to 16 mill in a NEW contract, just before he proposed cutting Hamiltons contract to 12 mill.

Sometimes its better to gather the facts that are freely available before arguing a case :thumbup:

You might like to re-read what I wrote!!
* Definition of ARM'S LENGTH: "a distance discouraging personal contact or familiarity" - in other words, Ron Dennis wasn't supposed to be """""directly"""" involved.
* I didn't say that Ron Dennis negotiated Button's contract, what I said was that I believe he knew about it.
* I didn't say that Button was being paid more, when he came to McLaren, nor did I say who was worth more to the team, when he first arrived.
* What I did say was that Ron Dennis, being a smart, savvy and ruthless businessman, would have been aware of what was going on before, during and after the negotiation of Button's contract, just as he was aware of what was going on before, during and after Hamilton's negotiations went awry.

By the way, in the following ""freely available fact"", it would seem that Ron Dennis doesn't have problem with Hamilton's departure, nor does he feel it was Hamilton walking away.
n.b., this was written as direct quotes, which one would assume are accurate:
Ron Dennis says McLaren could have kept Lewis Hamilton in its team for 2013.

Hamilton left McLaren to join Mercedes for the 2013 season.

Speaking to the magazine of the Confederation of British Industry in December, Dennis said: “Did we have the ability to create a situation where we could have stayed together? Categorically, yes.”

“Would that have been the right thing to do? We didn’t think so.”

Dennis added: “Whatever people choose to do at the end of a contractual period, the professional thing to do is to be supportive of the other side.

“We don’t wish him every success at Mercedes – that’s understandable, as he’s obviously going to be a competitor – but we don’t wish him anything negative.”

“I think it’s wrong to portray that Lewis left this team. At the end of the day, you end up with a situation where you’re going to separate if the circumstances aren’t right.”
#390546
:rofl: but Lewis did leave that team. He did leave McLaren, for all sorts of reasons. Maclaren tried to keep him by upping the financial offer( after insulting him by offering him less than Button). And he chose not to accept. Ron is justifiably upset at loosing the jewel in the crown, that he had nurtured ; but loose him McLaren did, however Ron likes to twist it. It was Lewis' decision to leave McLaren and join Mercedes. And money wasn't the deciding factor, I understand McLaren matched the financial offer.
#390569
:rofl: ... however Ron likes to twist it. It was Lewis' decision to leave McLaren and join Mercedes. And money wasn't the deciding factor, I understand McLaren matched the financial offer.

Out of curiousity, is this an example of the "Ronspeak" Dennis is famous for?
And... if I remember correctly, wasn't there an issue with the trophies won
and who gets to keep them? :confused:

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