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[vaptin]

Did anyone blame Mclaren for the no grip problems? Of course it's fair game that they try to work on it, but the problem was always Button's.

Show me a YouTube clip or two of Button taking personal responsibility for the lack of grip. Saying the car has to be good since Lewis is able to be competetive in it, so it must be something I'm picking wrong with the setup.

I thought you were referring to people on here reacting differently to Jenson problems and Lewis problems,

Jensen certainly said "we" a fair amount when talking about car issues.

[What's Burning?]

Did anyone blame Mclaren for the no grip problems? Of course it's fair game that they try to work on it, but the problem was always Button's.

Show me a YouTube clip or two of Button taking personal responsibility for the lack of grip. Saying the car has to be good since Lewis is able to be competetive in it, so it must be something I'm picking wrong with the setup.

I thought you were referring to people on here reacting differently to Jenson problems and Lewis problems,

Jensen certainly said "we" a fair amount when talking about car issues.

Yes indeed he did... he's a much better diplomat than he is a driver.

[scotty]

Yeah I understand he chose it, but to say let's not blame the team. You as an engineer if you come up with WRONG data to (of one second a lap )a degree that in the sport is an insurmountable chasm. Should appreciate the gravity in that.

Lewis is a duffus for actually sharing the telemetry, but that doesn't negate the f@ck up by his team.

The teams only had one practice hour don't forget, which surely helped them decide to take a gamble... some decisions must be made on driver feeling, cause they have to go out and do the times. There is no point sending a driver out on something they are not happy with, and the vote the team made to change reflects that. It is the only sensible thing to do in my (albeit somewhat limited) experience. He could have been shredding tyres or something on the new wing, this is something none of us know and something the teams do know.

And one more important thing, that i'll just quote on the telemetry photo cause it's quicker than me explaining - "It shows him losing 0.5s in both the high speed sectors 1&2 but what it does not show is that the idea with running a higher downforce wing is that you make up a second in Sector 2. So the lap times end up more or less the same. This is what happened with Kobayashi and Raikkonen, both of whom are running similar levels to Hamilton."

[What's Burning?]

Yeah I understand he chose it, but to say let's not blame the team. You as an engineer if you come up with WRONG data to (of one second a lap )a degree that in the sport is an insurmountable chasm. Should appreciate the gravity in that.

Lewis is a duffus for actually sharing the telemetry, but that doesn't negate the f@ck up by his team.

The teams only had one practice hour don't forget, which surely helped them decide to take a gamble... some decisions must be made on driver feeling, cause they have to go out and do the times. There is no point sending a driver out on something they are not happy with, and the vote the team made to change reflects that. It is the only sensible thing to do in my (albeit somewhat limited) experience. He could have been shredding tyres or something on the new wing, this is something none of us know and something the teams do know.

And one more important thing, that i'll just quote on the telemetry photo cause it's quicker than me explaining - "It shows him losing 0.5s in both the high speed sectors 1&2 but what it does not show is that the idea with running a higher downforce wing is that you make up a second in Sector 2. So the lap times end up more or less the same. This is what happened with Kobayashi and Raikkonen, both of whom are running similar levels to Hamilton."

I stated the limited practice session in my comments being what led to the error and I stated that Lewis made the decision. I also stated that it's pointless to put blame on it from either party. They've clearly once again have the most capable car on the grid, get out there and do the 1-2 instead. it was clear that based on the time differences the cars that went one way and the cars that went the other with setup. In the end what I'm avoiding here is the blame game, because obviously Lewis wouldn't be complaining so vociferously had he felt that he just didn't drive well enough. The data was there and shows that there was no way to claw back the difference in sector two alone.

Frankly the only current grid drivers I've ever seen unequivocally state they just weren't' good enough, not the car, but them have been Lewis, Alonso, and Raikkonen. So when any of those three say the opposite, I tend to believe them.

[racechick]

Yes. It was undoubtedly Lewis' decision to take the old wing, I dont think anyone doubts that. Its the information he based his decision on that is suspect.

Well, i see your point to an extent, but it's not like he had different information to Button. And he based his decision ultimately on not liking the new rear wing.

Button has not been able to drive the car for most of the season and this wing felt good for him. For him the decision was a no brainer.

Lewis based his decision on prefering the old wing and being told there was little difference but this one would be quicker in quali. Now had they said to him
'Lewis you may not like the feel, but its worth a second a lap in quali, ', Do you think he'd have still picked the old one?
If they'd said 'we think it may be worth half a second', Do you think he'd have picked the old one?
If they'd said, 'there's potential tenths to be gained by the new wing', Do you think he'd have picked the old one.
He'd have been hauling that car round the track whatever the rear wing felt like.
He was furious by the misinformation he was given and so he acted foolishly.(Im gonna write more about that in the Lewis thread when I get time)

[scotty]

I stated the limited practice session in my comments being what led to the error and I stated that Lewis made the decision. I also stated that it's pointless to put blame on it from either party. They've clearly once again have the most capable car on the grid, get out there and do the 1-2 instead. it was clear that based on the time differences the cars that went one way and the cars that went the other with setup. In the end what I'm avoiding here is the blame game, because obviously Lewis wouldn't be complaining so vociferously had he felt that he just didn't drive well enough. The data was there and shows that there was no way to claw back the difference in sector two alone.

Frankly the only current grid drivers I've ever seen unequivocally state they just weren't' good enough, not the car, but them have been Lewis, Alonso, and Raikkonen. So when any of those three say the opposite, I tend to believe them.

So it would seem we agree to an extent cause i don't think you can blame it entirely on one party either, that was my point essentially. Although i disagree about the data, cause you can see the difference the setup made in various sectors looking at what Kobayashi and Raikkonen were doing, and that in qualifying Hamilton was able to go quicker than Button in sector two rather than just being slower in every single sector anyway like he was in practice (might have partly been fuel loads etc, but an educated guess would say that they would have run similar programmes in FP).

Button has not been able to drive the car for most of the season and this wing felt good for him. For him the decision was a no brainer.

Lewis based his decision on prefering the old wing and being told there was little difference but this one would be quicker in quali. Now had they said to him
'Lewis you may not like the feel, but its worth a second a lap in quali, ', Do you think he'd have still picked the old one?
If they'd said 'we think it may be worth half a second', Do you think he'd have picked the old one?
If they'd said, 'there's potential tenths to be gained by the new wing', Do you think he'd have picked the old one.
He'd have been hauling that car round the track whatever the rear wing felt like.
He was furious by the misinformation he was given and so he acted foolishly.(Im gonna write more about that in the Lewis thread when I get time)

But that wasn't possible, was it, and is completely inapplicable because they could never have put it like that, because there is a trade off so you cannot reasonably say that he would just have simply gained that laptime with the new wing when the lower downforce would obviously lose time in the middle sector. And given Hamilton's comments qualifying where he said "we had a relatively big gap between ourselves and the Red Bulls and the Ferraris. And so we felt on our side of the garage that we should try something to fix it", this suggests that he may not have even gone any quicker at all regardless of the setup choice.

[What's Burning?]

@Scotty... that's why all I want to do is look forward to next week.

[f1ea]

It's worth a second a lap in qualy when you compare jenson's lap vs lewis'.
But if Lewis wasnt comfy with the wing, or had setup issues, you'd have to guess his times would not have been the sane a jenson's. Se really, for Lewis it might have been an insignifficant diff based on what they had with lewis data. They also could have been referring to the race. They also could have made the conclusion fron what they had experienced in fp... Which coulbhave been diff conditions than Q?

Basically, WE do not know the context under which his engineers give reccomendations. Hence..... The problem with tweeting partial confidential information in order to get public attention for a more complex issue.

But let's just save sone time:
Mclaren wanna screw Lewis up. He should not sign his contract an move to another team. Lewis is the best driver ever because al the drivers that beat him, are either cheaters or lucky.

[What's Burning?]

But let's just save sone time:
Mclaren wanna screw Lewis up. He should not sign his contract an move to another team. Lewis is the best driver ever because al the drivers that beat him, are either cheaters or lucky.

Very helpful to your argument.

[f1ea]

But let's just save sone time:
Mclaren wanna screw Lewis up. He should not sign his contract an move to another team. Lewis is the best driver ever because al the drivers that beat him, are either cheaters or lucky.

Very helpful to your argument.

Saves some time :p
Although, this is a tiny bit more helpful:

http://m.espnf1.com/s/3394/118?teamName ... ryNo=87777

[darwin dali]

But let's just save sone time:
Mclaren wanna screw Lewis up. He should not sign his contract an move to another team. Lewis is the best driver ever because al the drivers that beat him, are either cheaters or lucky.

Very helpful to your argument.

Saves some time :p
Although, this is a tiny bit more helpful:

http://m.espnf1.com/s/3394/118?teamName ... ryNo=87777

Jenson Button is disappointed in Lewis Hamilton after his McLaren team-mate published private telemetry on Twitter.

Hamilton, who was asked to remove the post by McLaren, tweeted an overlay of his qualifying lap and Button's, with red ink showing where he had lost time due to his decision to run a different rear wing. Hamilton opted for a high-drag wing compared to Button's low-drag option and ended up over 0.8s slower as a result of losing time on the straights.

Asked how he felt about having the data made public, Button said: "I'll say disappointed. We work so hard to improve the car and to keep things like that private."

But Button made clear that it had not created a personal rift between the drivers and that it was more the principle of tweeting private data that he had a problem with.

"I think it's done now," said Button "I don't think it's for me to be angry with Lewis because it's not a personal thing. The bit about him losing six tenths on the straights isn't the bit that's important to me because he should be gaining it back in the corners he's got more downforce on. And I was eight tenths quicker in qualifying anyway. It's more the information that we work so hard to keep secret and private, that was the thing I didn't want to see on Twitter."

Team principal Martin Whitmarsh said he expected Hamilton to be back at his best at the Italian Grand Prix.

"I think it was not well judged and Lewis acknowledged that as soon as it was pointed out to him," the McLaren boss told Sky Sports on Monday. "I think it was a little bit embarrassing for Lewis and I'm sure he will learn from that."

He added: "It hasn't driven a wedge [between Hamilton and the team]. I've known Lewis since he was 11 years old, he's someone who has grown up in this team and in the glare of public criticism and views. Some things he has learned, some things he has yet to learn. I think he is a deep and soulful individual and I think he's been going through a difficult time, but I think he will bounce back and we will see a different Lewis Hamilton in a few days time in Italy."

[What's Burning?]

But let's just save sone time:
Mclaren wanna screw Lewis up. He should not sign his contract an move to another team. Lewis is the best driver ever because al the drivers that beat him, are either cheaters or lucky.

Very helpful to your argument.

Saves some time :p
Although, this is a tiny bit more helpful:

http://m.espnf1.com/s/3394/118?teamName ... ryNo=87777

He should be more disappointed about his performance to date than Lewis' goings on.

[LewEngBridewell]

But let's just save sone time:
Mclaren wanna screw Lewis up. He should not sign his contract an move to another team. Lewis is the best driver ever because al the drivers that beat him, are either cheaters or lucky.

Very helpful to your argument.

Saves some time :p
Although, this is a tiny bit more helpful:

http://m.espnf1.com/s/3394/118?teamName ... ryNo=87777

Jenson Button is disappointed in Lewis Hamilton after his McLaren team-mate published private telemetry on Twitter.

Hamilton, who was asked to remove the post by McLaren, tweeted an overlay of his qualifying lap and Button's, with red ink showing where he had lost time due to his decision to run a different rear wing. Hamilton opted for a high-drag wing compared to Button's low-drag option and ended up over 0.8s slower as a result of losing time on the straights.

Asked how he felt about having the data made public, Button said: "I'll say disappointed. We work so hard to improve the car and to keep things like that private."

But Button made clear that it had not created a personal rift between the drivers and that it was more the principle of tweeting private data that he had a problem with.

"I think it's done now," said Button "I don't think it's for me to be angry with Lewis because it's not a personal thing. The bit about him losing six tenths on the straights isn't the bit that's important to me because he should be gaining it back in the corners he's got more downforce on. And I was eight tenths quicker in qualifying anyway. It's more the information that we work so hard to keep secret and private, that was the thing I didn't want to see on Twitter."

Team principal Martin Whitmarsh said he expected Hamilton to be back at his best at the Italian Grand Prix.

"I think it was not well judged and Lewis acknowledged that as soon as it was pointed out to him," the McLaren boss told Sky Sports on Monday. "I think it was a little bit embarrassing for Lewis and I'm sure he will learn from that."

He added: "It hasn't driven a wedge [between Hamilton and the team]. I've known Lewis since he was 11 years old, he's someone who has grown up in this team and in the glare of public criticism and views. Some things he has learned, some things he has yet to learn. I think he is a deep and soulful individual and I think he's been going through a difficult time, but I think he will bounce back and we will see a different Lewis Hamilton in a few days time in Italy."

Good reading for RC!

I wonder what Lewis and Jenson really think of each other?

[vlad]

To be honest, it was silly of Hamilton to put anything that has to do with those informations on tweeter.

[What's Burning?]

Here's how the conversation went.

LH: I'm sorry I posted that.
MW: Don't worry, nothing really anyone doesn't already know or can't figure out, but just don't do it again.
LH: Okay
MW: And I'm sorry we completely screwed the pooch with that telemetry. We've sent the engineer in question to the same place we sent the left rear wheel man.
LH: OOF That's tough. But thank thank you.
MW: Will you still sign?
LH: Nicole still hasn't made up her mind.
MW: OOF That's tough. Maybe if we feature her more than Jessica?
LH: Let's just see if we can get a McLaren 1-2 tomorrow.