Brazilian GP

Post by **Irv the Swerve** » 11 Oct 06, 18:06

True.

Post by **Dazza** » 11 Oct 06, 18:51

No one has mentioned the orange Arrows from a few years back. That was a fairly unsual colour. I thought the green Jaguars were quite nice

Post by **Smokestoomuch** » 11 Oct 06, 19:08

I thought the Orange Arrows were quite nice.

The British racing green Jags were rather ironic - considering it was only after Jaguar was bought out by the Americans that the company entered into F1. Not bad looking, but awful results.

Strange that that Webber in the 2004 Jag scored 7 points - the team was sold in November so Red Bull fielded a virtually identical car in 2005 and Coulthard scored 24 points in it. Now Webber is going back there. I bet he does really badly and "retires" before the end of the season.

Post by **darwin dali** » 11 Oct 06, 21:32

Originally it was 8,6,4,3,2 with an extra point for fastest lap. That point was later dropped and one added for sixth place. In response to a clamour that the winner should get greater recognition, an extra point was awarded in 1961, making the points 9,6,4,3,2,1. Exactly 30 years later, a similar clamour resulted in the winner being awarded 10 points. Throughout F1's early years and in the 1960s, 70s and into the 80s, drivers often had to drop one or more of their lowest scores as only a certain number of finishes in the points could be counted.

Post by **manmonkee** » 12 Oct 06, 12:20

Sorry going back to a point for fastest lap, no way should that be introduced into F1, too much depends on the car, you'd never see a Spyker or and Aguri getting that point, It'd just be an extra point for Schuey to pick up.
It works well in single make series, Champ car has a point for fastest lap and Pole I think, but even though it's single make a few select guys always get those points, Bourdais, Allmendinger, Wilson.

Post by **Smokestoomuch** » 12 Oct 06, 14:47

Spyker and SA never get fastest lap because currently their best chance of point is scraping in eight place if there are a lot of drop outs. Their cars are set-up to go the distance (or least they're supposed to be) in the best time they can manage.

If a point was available for fastest lap that might become the main goal of the back of the field and the cars could be set-up for a short, very fast run.

Ferrari/Renault/McLaren wouldn't be able to try the same tactic as it would involve a pitting for more fuel after a quick run and would compromise their entire race.

The lesser teams could decide to run one or two cars for the fastest lap, then bring them in for another attempt or to compete in the race proper. If half the field are set up for a short, fast run a crafty bit of planning could get a "long distance" set-up in to the top eight unexpectedly.

It would mean that effectively there were two competitions going on, which could be fun, or could be incredibly dangerous.

Discuss.

Post by **manmonkee** » 12 Oct 06, 16:15

" set up for a short, fast run"???, I'm not quite sure how a mid field team could set up a car to get fastest lap, they could set the engine for maximum revs and short fuel it, even then I can't see them beating a top team. At some point in a race every car before it pits will only have 1 laps fuel and will be going pretty quick, Short of divine intervention a Spyker even on low fuel and and at maximum revs wouldn't ever get fastest lap. Do you think they could over rev an engine??? one big lap before the engine goes pop??, I don't know if such a thing is feesable.

Post by **Smokestoomuch** » 12 Oct 06, 16:35

BMW manage to top the practice times on a regular basis, with Honda close behind. Low fuel, fresh tyres, different down force settings can a big difference - race settings aren't the fastest lap solution, they're the fastest race distance solution.

The fastest lap for the last GP at Suzuka was on lap 14 by Alonso @ 1:32.676. Before his first pit stop so low on fuel but with knackered tyres.

In qualifying 1 Doornbos in the badly outclassed Red Bull set a time of 1:32.402 and made it to 18th - faster than Alonso's fastest racing lap.

For reference the slowest Q1 time was Monteiro @ 1.33.709

Post by **manmonkee** » 12 Oct 06, 16:49

Good point, Makes all the more important not to award a point for fastest lap, you'd get the lower teams engaged in a battle of there own, not involving themselves with the acctual business of racing. It would be nice if the smaller teams could get the odd point, I suppose they'll just have to build faster cars.

Post by **Stephen** » 12 Oct 06, 19:57

Smokestoomuch wrote:Is this a guess or is it based on something, because I was watching F1 in the late 80s (All praise to the the Greeat Senna) and as far as I can remeber it was 10-6-5 etc then - in fact I can't remeber it being anything else before that until the anti-Ferrari change already mentioned - although I wouldn't rule out a memory lapse.

In the nineteen fifties the points system ran 8, 6, 4, 3, 2 with fastest lap 1pt. During 1960 1pt was awarded for sixth, and no fastest lap was recognised. A year later this was changed where the winner took 9pts. In 1991, 10pts was awarded for a win. It was 2003 when the pts system was changed to reward the first eight finishers, 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

Post by **Dazza** » 12 Oct 06, 20:11

In the nineteen fifties the points system ran 8, 6, 4, 3, 2 with fastest lap 1pt. During 1960 1pt was awarded for sixth, and no fastest lap was recognised. A year later this was changed where the winner took 9pts. In 1991, 10pts was awarded for a win. It was 2003 when the pts system was changed to reward the first eight finishers, 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

So the original system also featured a 2 point gap from 1st to 2nd. Interesting how that gap increased to 4 points later on. Personally, i still believe race wins should be better rewarded, i mean that's what it's supposed to be about, winning races.
I would suggest 10, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 and possibly a point for fastest lap. Surely drivers and teams should aim for wins, rather than multiple second places coupled with the odd win here and there (i.e. 'consistency'). just my opinion...

Post by **Irv the Swerve** » 12 Oct 06, 21:15

I prefer the old system of 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1. So the teams will do anything for a win because of the point gap to second place. As dazza said its about winning races.

Post by **darwin dali** » 12 Oct 06, 21:18

Agreed.

Post by **anakngpitongkubanamanoh** » 27 Oct 06, 23:34

Unless there are dirty tricks at play that is.

the only dirty trick I know is what FISICO did...

Post by **bud** » 28 Oct 06, 08:29

hahaha Fisico dirty trick??? :lol:

go smoke some more schumacher weed which Ferrari hand out to derolict fans like you!

First off that was just a racing incident Schumacher took the chance to pass it was risky and lost out, nothing dirty about it Fissi held his line he didnt turn in on him!

secondly how can a schumacher fan EVEN whinge about such claims when he has time after time dished out dirty s*** during his career???

You have the typical Ferrari fan mentality thats for sure, keep up the good work and give real F1 fans something to laugh at!