2021 Bahrain GP

Formula One related discussion.
User avatar
myownalias
Mod
Posts: 9423
Joined: 27 May 09, 23:16
Favourite Driver: Jenson Button
Favourite Team: Williams
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by myownalias »

Angel wrote: 30 Mar 21, 23:51
myownalias wrote: 29 Mar 21, 13:24
Angel wrote: 29 Mar 21, 11:46 Track limits at turn 4 were in place for qualify take away for the race. That’s why Mercedes drivers used kerbs. Was allowed.
Inconsistent rules not fault of Hamilton, he just apply them. Red Bull and drivers should keep up with rules and FIA should sort them out. Can’t give penalty for obeying rules.
Mercedes were doing a little more than riding the kerbs, Lewis and Mercedes were warned during the race about turn 4 track limits. If it was OK for Lewis to use that part of the tarmac at turn 4, then it should have been fine for Max to use it to overtake, yes?
No. Like is explained by long post above. Rule for race was okay to go out of track limits at turn 4 but not in qualifying. Overtaking could not happen off the track, all these rules clear before race. Different rule for what Leiws did and what Max did.
I was being facetious in regard to Max's overtake off track. :)

Race director Michael Masi clarified after the race;

"With regard to tolerance given with people running outside of the track limits during the race it was mentioned very clearly in the meeting and the notes that it would not be monitored with regard to setting the lap time, so to speak, but it will always be monitored in according with the sporting regulations that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained."

I would argue that Lewis gained a lasting advantage by repeatedly exceeding track limits at turn 4.
myownaliasThe Englishman in KansasTwitter: @myownalias
User avatar
darwin dali
Forum Queen
Posts: 26873
Joined: 18 Mar 06, 02:56

Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by darwin dali »

Yup - 29 x 0.2 seconds adds up...
Image Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. Image
St.Fric
Posts: 39
Joined: 12 May 19, 20:01
Favourite Driver: Lando Norris

Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by St.Fric »

darwin dali wrote: 29 Mar 21, 13:45 ESPNF1:

[...]A video compilation on social media showed Hamilton's car straying beyond the white line on the exit of Turn 4 on 29 individual occasions before his race engineer relayed a warning from race control telling him to stay within the lines.

Later in the race, on lap 53, Verstappen overtook Hamilton for the lead around the outside of Turn 4, but strayed off the track on the exit, resulting in a message from race control to the Red Bull pit wall ordering him to give the position back.

Although the incidents occurred at the same part of the circuit and are both linked to the abuse of track limits, Masi said they fell under two different regulations.
Hamilton's abuse of track limits was tied to Section 21 of the Race Director's Notes, which are issued ahead of each race and deal with regulations that are specific to each track.

Verstappen's incident was linked to Article 27.3 of the Sporting Regulations about overtaking off the track and is a blanket rule that applies at every race of the season.

Some of the confusion came from a perceived change in the regulations midway through the weekend.

In the drivers' briefing on Friday evening, Masi had told the drivers that Turn 4 track limits would be monitored during practice and qualifying -- with any lap times in which the driver strayed wide at Turn 4 being deleted -- but would not be monitored during the race in terms of lap deletion. The ruling was written up in the race director's notes on Saturday morning as follows:

21) Track Limits 21.1 Practice Sessions
a) A lap time achieved during any practice session by leaving the track and cutting behind the red and white kerb on the exit of Turn 4, will result in that lap time being invalidated by the stewards. 21.2 Race
a) The track limits at the exit of Turn 4 will not be monitored with regard to setting a lap time, as the defining limits are the artificial grass and the gravel trap in that location.
b) In all cases during the race, Drivers are reminded of the provisions of Article 27.3 of the Sporting Regulations.

The key point in relation to Verstappen's move is this reference to Article 27.3, which states:

"Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason. Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

"Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track."

Therefore, Verstappen's overtake was classified as "gaining a lasting advantage", whereas Hamilton's repeated offences were not until he had done so many midway through the race that race control felt the need to take action.

Masi offered the following explanation after the race: "[The two decisions regarding Verstappen and Hamilton] are clearly specifically different and consistent with both notes and what was mentioned and discussed with drivers in the driver meeting, that if an overtake takes place with a car off track and gains an advantage, a lasting advantage, I will go on the radio and suggest to the team that they immediately relinquish that position, and that was made very clear.

"With regard to tolerance given with people running outside of the track limits during the race it was mentioned very clearly in the meeting and the notes that it would not be monitored with regard to setting the lap time, so to speak, but it will always be monitored in according with the sporting regulations that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained."

Masi denied the rules had changed midway through the race as had been suggested by Hamilton over team radio when he was told he would get a warning flag and a penalty if he continued to abuse track limits at Turn 4.

"No, nothing changed at all during the race," Masi added. "We had two people that were looking in that area at every car at every lap and pretty much every car bar one was doing the right thing within what we expected in a general sequence. There was the occasional car that had a bit of a moment or went out there but it wasn't a constant thing."[...]


I still think that LH got a lasting advantage from his bad boy track limits violations (see my calculations in previous post) and should have warranted a 5 second penalty, which would have reversed the order at the top.
That's a lot of talking for an opinion from a fan girl. Here is a professional look at it. :wavey:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zR74ijo7U
User avatar
overboost
Posts: 2910
Joined: 01 Jun 14, 02:16
Favourite Driver: GV

Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by overboost »

Jolyon Palmer!

Total waste of time listening to that guy.

Lasting advantage from 29 times exceeding track limits at .2s per lap is 5.8 seconds. That's alot.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. - Winston Churchill

overboost - forumula1 pool 2015 world champion!
overboost - autosport grand prix predictor 2016 - Top 100, 1298 points!