2021 Bahrain GP

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Angel
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by Angel »

Perez did step up. From last to fifth. Will be good partner for Max. Is better than Bottas. LEWIS showed his skill in last 15 laps on old tyres holds off Max. Other driver Max would get past.
I also hope Red Bull stay competitive, very exciting today. Max has fastest car but Merc closed gap very much since testing and Lewis pilots so good today.I hope it stays close. Better when drivers have to fight. Divers can make difference when racing is close like this.
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by St.Fric »

Fantastic race. Red Bull fastest car, pole by 4/10 and ten lap fresher tires but Sir Lewis Hamilton driving like and 8 time world champion alredy. Max blaming his team for mistake after the first race. :banghead:

Aniway Ferrari making big improvement may be able to fight for 4th place in the championship this year. McLaren will be third because there drivers but if Alphatauri had more experiece they would be 4th this year. Everybody very close in the midfield.

For anyone questioning why Mercedes paid Sir Lewis Hamilton what they did, you know they would not have won this race without him. :wavey:
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overboost
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by overboost »

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overboost
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by overboost »

Apparently this is how Hamilton won with a lasting advantage after exceeding track limits 29 times at turn 4. :yikes:

Worth a 5 second penalty I would say. Maybe a half dozen 5s penalties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojzgSRJJG-U&t=1s

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darwin dali
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by darwin dali »

29 x 0.1s advantage = 2.9s
29 x 0.2s advantage = 5.8s
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myownalias
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by myownalias »

The issue is inconsistent stewardship, during the weekend the application of track limits was all over the place. The FIA needs to decide whether they want to apply track limits or not, they cannot keep cropping and changing the track limits rule from race to race and session to session.
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Angel
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by Angel »

Track limits at turn 4 were in place for qualify take away for the race. That’s why Mercedes drivers used kerbs. Was allowed.
Inconsistent rules not fault of Hamilton, he just apply them. Red Bull and drivers should keep up with rules and FIA should sort them out. Can’t give penalty for obeying rules.
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myownalias
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by myownalias »

Angel wrote: 29 Mar 21, 11:46 Track limits at turn 4 were in place for qualify take away for the race. That’s why Mercedes drivers used kerbs. Was allowed.
Inconsistent rules not fault of Hamilton, he just apply them. Red Bull and drivers should keep up with rules and FIA should sort them out. Can’t give penalty for obeying rules.
Mercedes were doing a little more than riding the kerbs, Lewis and Mercedes were warned during the race about turn 4 track limits. If it was OK for Lewis to use that part of the tarmac at turn 4, then it should have been fine for Max to use it to overtake, yes?
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darwin dali
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by darwin dali »

ESPNF1:

[...]A video compilation on social media showed Hamilton's car straying beyond the white line on the exit of Turn 4 on 29 individual occasions before his race engineer relayed a warning from race control telling him to stay within the lines.

Later in the race, on lap 53, Verstappen overtook Hamilton for the lead around the outside of Turn 4, but strayed off the track on the exit, resulting in a message from race control to the Red Bull pit wall ordering him to give the position back.

Although the incidents occurred at the same part of the circuit and are both linked to the abuse of track limits, Masi said they fell under two different regulations.
Hamilton's abuse of track limits was tied to Section 21 of the Race Director's Notes, which are issued ahead of each race and deal with regulations that are specific to each track.

Verstappen's incident was linked to Article 27.3 of the Sporting Regulations about overtaking off the track and is a blanket rule that applies at every race of the season.

Some of the confusion came from a perceived change in the regulations midway through the weekend.

In the drivers' briefing on Friday evening, Masi had told the drivers that Turn 4 track limits would be monitored during practice and qualifying -- with any lap times in which the driver strayed wide at Turn 4 being deleted -- but would not be monitored during the race in terms of lap deletion. The ruling was written up in the race director's notes on Saturday morning as follows:

21) Track Limits 21.1 Practice Sessions
a) A lap time achieved during any practice session by leaving the track and cutting behind the red and white kerb on the exit of Turn 4, will result in that lap time being invalidated by the stewards. 21.2 Race
a) The track limits at the exit of Turn 4 will not be monitored with regard to setting a lap time, as the defining limits are the artificial grass and the gravel trap in that location.
b) In all cases during the race, Drivers are reminded of the provisions of Article 27.3 of the Sporting Regulations.

The key point in relation to Verstappen's move is this reference to Article 27.3, which states:

"Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason. Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

"Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track."

Therefore, Verstappen's overtake was classified as "gaining a lasting advantage", whereas Hamilton's repeated offences were not until he had done so many midway through the race that race control felt the need to take action.

Masi offered the following explanation after the race: "[The two decisions regarding Verstappen and Hamilton] are clearly specifically different and consistent with both notes and what was mentioned and discussed with drivers in the driver meeting, that if an overtake takes place with a car off track and gains an advantage, a lasting advantage, I will go on the radio and suggest to the team that they immediately relinquish that position, and that was made very clear.

"With regard to tolerance given with people running outside of the track limits during the race it was mentioned very clearly in the meeting and the notes that it would not be monitored with regard to setting the lap time, so to speak, but it will always be monitored in according with the sporting regulations that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained."

Masi denied the rules had changed midway through the race as had been suggested by Hamilton over team radio when he was told he would get a warning flag and a penalty if he continued to abuse track limits at Turn 4.

"No, nothing changed at all during the race," Masi added. "We had two people that were looking in that area at every car at every lap and pretty much every car bar one was doing the right thing within what we expected in a general sequence. There was the occasional car that had a bit of a moment or went out there but it wasn't a constant thing."[...]


I still think that LH got a lasting advantage from his bad boy track limits violations (see my calculations in previous post) and should have warranted a 5 second penalty, which would have reversed the order at the top.
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John Doe
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by John Doe »

myownalias wrote: 28 Mar 21, 17:07
John Doe wrote: 28 Mar 21, 16:55
myownalias wrote: 28 Mar 21, 16:52 Hamilton may have won the race, so on paper, it looks like normal service has been resumed, but when was the last time there was a sub 1 second gap at the chequered flag between two different drivers. I'm hopeful for the 2021 F1 season, dare I say, I feel a little excited by the prospect of F1 2021.

I really enjoyed this race, some great midfield racing, and an actual battle for the lead.
"On paper" ???? What does that mean. You are day dreaming he did it only on paper.
Yes, on paper; it's another win for Mercedes and Hamilton, but that does not tell the story of the race. I'm not claiming that Hamilton did not deserve the win, but he and Mercedes had to work for it, it was no walk in the park.
John Doe wrote: 28 Mar 21, 16:54 Yet another win from the GOAT LH.
Maybe the greatest of his generation, but saying he is the GOAT is stretching it, IMO!
GOAT means Greatest of All Times. Period.

Accept that he is the best driver and you would suffer less. MV may have passed him if he wasn't stupid enough to stay longer on the track before 2nd pit.
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myownalias
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by myownalias »

John Doe wrote: 29 Mar 21, 21:10
myownalias wrote: 28 Mar 21, 17:07
John Doe wrote: 28 Mar 21, 16:54 Yet another win from the GOAT LH.
Maybe the greatest of his generation, but saying he is the GOAT is stretching it, IMO!
GOAT means Greatest of All Times. Period.

Accept that he is the best driver and you would suffer less. MV may have passed him if he wasn't stupid enough to stay longer on the track before 2nd pit.
I'm aware of what GOAT means; but thanks for the clarification!

And, I'm perfectly fine not believing that LH is the GOAT, but thanks for your concern! :rofl:

Finally, about Red Bull keeping Verstappen out too long, we agree on that one! :drink:
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overboost
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by overboost »

Yes. It was a strategic loss by Red Bull.

Hamilton was lucky to have won the race, a gift.
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Angel
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by Angel »

😂😂The race a gift? I think you watch different race to me. That was hard fought race. But I see you don’t like LEWIS Hamilton,so maybe makes easier for you if you say these things. But I think for you will spoil good racing for yourself if you feel so bitter by one driver. LEWIS is my best driver but after that battle would be happy with either take the win.
Angel
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by Angel »

myownalias wrote: 29 Mar 21, 13:24
Angel wrote: 29 Mar 21, 11:46 Track limits at turn 4 were in place for qualify take away for the race. That’s why Mercedes drivers used kerbs. Was allowed.
Inconsistent rules not fault of Hamilton, he just apply them. Red Bull and drivers should keep up with rules and FIA should sort them out. Can’t give penalty for obeying rules.
Mercedes were doing a little more than riding the kerbs, Lewis and Mercedes were warned during the race about turn 4 track limits. If it was OK for Lewis to use that part of the tarmac at turn 4, then it should have been fine for Max to use it to overtake, yes?
No. Like is explained by long post above. Rule for race was okay to go out of track limits at turn 4 but not in qualifying. Overtaking could not happen off the track, all these rules clear before race. Different rule for what Leiws did and what Max did.
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overboost
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Re: 2021 Bahrain GP

Post by overboost »

Angel wrote: 30 Mar 21, 23:46 😂😂The race a gift? I think you watch different race to me. That was hard fought race. But I see you don’t like LEWIS Hamilton,so maybe makes easier for you if you say these things. But I think for you will spoil good racing for yourself if you feel so bitter by one driver. LEWIS is my best driver but after that battle would be happy with either take the win.

Red Bull left Verstappen out for 4 laps after Hamilton pitted to undercut. That was a strategy error that cost Verstappen 8-10 seconds.

Like I said it was a gift to Hamilton and he got the win.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. - Winston Churchill

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