Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

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sagi58
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by sagi58 »

overboost wrote:Daniel Ricciardo:

"If he pulls a little further to the left, he'll spin. When he brakes on the grass, he'll spin too. There was not much room for Lewis but still enough. I had an identical situation with Lewis in 2016 Monte Carlo. He had to go through the emergency exit and almost pushed me into the wall on his return. With me it was tighter than now with him. He didn't get a penalty. That was a good thing. It was a hard racing."

Source: AMuS


Yup... Ricciardo hit the nail on the head:
"With me it was tighter than now with him. [Hamilton] didn't get a penalty".
ImageAfter the agony of defeat, success will be sweet!

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by sagi58 »

overboost wrote: ... F1 seems to be intentionally trying to drive itself out of business...

They need to fix this.


To be honest, because of the personal stuff in my life, I haven't been able to follow F1 as I normally would like...
actually, maybe it's partially because of the ridiculously obvious/flagrant benefits/advantages that Mercedes/Hamilton have been accorded.

Look, I know that people accused Ferrari of being in cahoots with the FIA; but, I would suggest to you there is a huge double standard amongst fans with biases, in spite of them denying their predispositions.

n.b. NOT referring to anyone on this forum!!
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by gdh »

I talked with a friend in broadcast, she said that once the 5 sec penalty was announced viewership started to slide dramatically. I hope that the Team Merc aka F1A wins every race, viewership totally collapses, panic sets in at Liberty Media as they see the value of their investment collapse, Ferrari, Renault, Williams prepare to lv and concentrate on FE. Maybe just maybe pure racing will be on the tarmac again and the sport will have to earn the respect of the fans.

We record the events now, just not worth our time to sit and watch in real time. We were out yesterday with a group of other vintage sports car owners. Most were avid F1 fans, none really follow it anymore. Just look at the few F1 forums left on the net, very few actual posters on each. Turn off the volume of the talking heads while the event is going on there is so little excitement on the track.

Pls bring back Maldonado, at least Crash might bring a little excitement back. :rolleyes:

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

My brothers and I, five of us, were going to attend the GP in Montreal this year but we decided to call it off due to the Merc dominance. At $2000 each it seemed too much to see a predetermined result.

With Ferrari on pole and the good weather we were kicking ourselves a bit for not going but that all changed with the decision to take Vettel's win away. We watched the race together and none of us could believe the stewards would take a win away over a such a non event incident. What an absolute waste of an afternoon.

But then we thought of all the poor fans who did go to Montreal and essentially wasted four days and $2000 or more each to see that fiasco. They must be livid. I can't imagine that they are thinking of attending next year.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by jmk »

This is a safety rule. I work in a safety-intensive industry - I flew airliners for a good part of my life. I fly my desk now and work with them there. I also road race motorcycles. I'm overjoyed with safety rules, as not all of them are. This one is. I wouldn't want the other company's airliner cutting me off on a taxiway because he was taxiing too fast or ran off the track or forced to clamp on my front brakes because someone cut the racing line where I was. Either case isn't fair for me at least and at worst either wind up in the hospital or morgue. Vettel doesn't have time for rules. I've watched him for years tout his arrogant attitude to anyone, including when he is cut off of the racing line. Rules apply equally to both parties. Thank God we have them. How many seconds did it actually cost Hamilton, 2 maybe? He won by less than a second and a half. With a 2 second penalty, he still would have won. When this happened matters, too. Next to the last lap sure doesn't have as much time to make up your loss. If Vettel was as fast as he and some others think, he should have been able to make this up, if Hamilton got the position handed to him. I don't think Vettel is nearly that fast, though. This was the first decent showing Ferrari has had this year. Keep your eye on LeClerk - He's fast. If he had the experience Vettel has, Hamilton would have a lot more competition this year. Safety rules... you bet! Bring them on! Vettel should leave his arrogant attitude outside the track... along with his place marker.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

^Should we agree with your opinion or should we agree with the opinions of Daniel Ricciardo, Nigel Mansell, Jenson Button, Martin Brundel, Karun Chandhok, Mario Andretti, etc etc, all of whom are F1 drivers and all in agreement on the lack of a safety issue and that the penalty was a blatant mistake?

I think we will go with the F1 racers on this one.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. - Winston Churchill

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by sagi58 »

overboost wrote:...I think we will go with the F1 racers on this one.


Here's the real question... aren't the Stewards ex-drivers?
Shouldn't they have recognized there was NO safety issue?
Why are they making that ""judgement"" call, if not to take
away the win from Vettel and gift if to Hamilton??
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by myownalias »

jmk wrote:Rules apply equally to both parties.

Not really, it should be this way, but unfortunately, the FIA stewards are super inconsistent. Yes, Vettel has made some dubious moves over the years, but in this case, I think it was a genuine mistake and he was struggling to regain control of his car. There has to be a balance between safety and racing, too much health and safety ruins racing, this is F1, not a commercial airline.
myownaliasThe Englishman in KansasTwitter: @myownalias

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

This just about sums it up:

Image
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. - Winston Churchill

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

Insult to injury:

https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/ ... 1878680579

Luke Smith

Verified account

@LukeSmithF1

Vettel has been given two penalty points on his FIA Super License for the incident #F1 #CanadianGP
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. - Winston Churchill

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SingidunumAussie
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by SingidunumAussie »

I, for one, am going to disagree with the predominant opinion that this was a racing accident and as such should not have been penalized.

My first point: Vettel made a mistake under pressure. Let's not forget that if he did not make a mistake, we would not be here talking about this controversy. But, like many times before, Vettel has proven to be a very poor driver under pressure. Just this year he made quite a few errors like this one, whether he was being chased by Mercedes or his own teammate.

2nd point: The rules are the rules. Here is what the rule states in this matter: "Should a car leave the track, the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage." When I read this to me it seems like penalty is justified. You're off the track slow down and gain control of the car then return. Instead he tried to control the car while at the same time trying to keep his position which was not doable in safe way because Hamilton was too close. If he completely lifted the foot of the gas paddle that car would've stabilized and rolled onto the track eventually but at the cost of losing the position. Instead, Vettel opted to fight to keep the position therefore - penalty. I don't think it can be much clearer that this. Again validity of the rules and what it does to the sport we love is not for debate here, that's another thread.

3rd point: Why would the stewards deliberately ruin the race? What is their incentive to do that? To suggest that they are in cahoots with the Mercedes team is ridiculous and childish. And if we really go down this path then we have to discuss the Formula 1's eternal beloved child - Ferrari team which is known for it's privileged status from the earliest days back in the 50s. For a team that has such a huge sway over every decision in Formula 1 from funding to the rules it is pathetic to think that there could be a conspiracy that is beyond the Ferrari's grasp.

4th point: Blame Ferrari incompetence for the boring season. Indeed, for as much as Mercedes had done good this year, Ferrari has done horribly wrong. From the problems with a car in one race where they had assured win with LeClerc, to horrible strategy decisions that cost them precious seconds. Hell, they made one in Canada too. LeClerc was in 3rd just a few seconds behind Hamilton. They pitted Vettel first and after first lap on his new tires it was obvious that he was faster on his hard tires than Hamilton on his mediums. Why did they not immediately call in LeClerc? If they did so, LeClerc might've gained precious few seconds needed to overtake Hamilton especially because Mercedes kept Hamilton out for another 3 laps before pitting him. I was screaming at a TV telling them to pit LeClerc right away... but no.

So yeah, it is a boring season for sure, but it's not Mercedes fault that they did everything perfect. Formula 1 was always about power, money, perfection and luck. This is exactly what we got this year. The most powerful team, with a lot of cash, being perfect and lucky at the same time.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

What was the unsafe part exactly?

And there was no 'accident' just racing that I could see. Not sure why you would call what happened an accident.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. - Winston Churchill

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

overboost wrote:^Should we agree with your opinion or should we agree with the opinions of Daniel Ricciardo, Nigel Mansell, Jenson Button, Martin Brundel, Karun Chandhok, Mario Andretti, etc etc, all of whom are F1 drivers and all in agreement on the lack of a safety issue and that the penalty was a blatant mistake?

I think we will go with the F1 racers on this one.


Add Damon Hill to the list.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. - Winston Churchill

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by gdh »

When the F1A send out the bat signal, Toto arrives.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by darwin dali »

overboost wrote:
overboost wrote:^Should we agree with your opinion or should we agree with the opinions of Daniel Ricciardo, Nigel Mansell, Jenson Button, Martin Brundel, Karun Chandhok, Mario Andretti, etc etc, all of whom are F1 drivers and all in agreement on the lack of a safety issue and that the penalty was a blatant mistake?

I think we will go with the F1 racers on this one.


Add Damon Hill to the list.

Not NR though... :rolleyes:
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