Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

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ActionJackson
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Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by ActionJackson »

Finally we had a close competition with the two main protagonists going at it.

Then Vettel made a mistake, came back on the track and Hamilton had to brake and avoid a collision.

The race stewards imposed a five second time penalty that pretty much wrapped up the race.


Lewis took the win finishing within five seconds of Vettel. Vettel was peeved to say the least. He said he was unable to keep the car off the racing line and called out the race stewards. He thought the penalty was unfair.

So let's think about this.

If the track limit had been a wall, Vettel would have crashed and DNF'd.

If the outside of the track had been high grip asphalt then it would have been like "short cutting" the chicane at the end of the tunnel in Monaco. Usually, if the driver was ahead, the driver is not penalized if he gives up the position. If he short cuts the chicane and gains a position he has to give it back.

We can debate all day long about whether Vettel may or may not have been able to control the car and stay off the racing line, but I can tell you that the racer's instinct is to make the car real wide and try and not lose a spot. (No that I would ever do that mind you).

But I hated the steward's penalty.

I would have told the team that they had the choice of telling the Ferrari team that they had a choice:

Give Hamilton the position OR take the 5 second penalty.


Ferrari almost certainly would have taken the option of giving up the position.....And then we would have seen a battle to the end. I don't know how that would have turned out. but I would have loved to see the battle.

Hamilton was obviously weak out of the hairpin, (No idea why), and Vettel was super fast down the long straight to the chicane. I think my money would have been on Vettel reclaiming the lead.

Race verdict: Room for improvement by the Stewards.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by myownalias »

While I see and understand your point, I believe the FIA made a terrible mistake in penalizing Vettel, even more so given the Mercedes dominance, including this controversial result, Mercedes has claimed victory in every race. I personally don't have a dog in the race, I'm neither a Hamilton nor Vettel fan, from a neutral's perspective, the FIA has killed racing by making these decisions, often favoring Mercedes. I think, that if I had been in Vettel's position, I would be steaming hot, I probably would have gone to my car and left the circuit.

It's time we relaxed the penalties and allow drivers to race, over-regulation is killing F1, the sport needs all the help it can get to maintain interest, and this, in my opinion, wrong decision, has damaged the sport even more. I remember the times when Damon Hill and Michael Schumacher crashed in the late 90s and it was a racing incident, there was not even an investigation, now almost every tiny touch is investigated. I think we need a touring car regulation model, where contact was part and parcel of racing. In my opinion, F1 is a shadow of its former self.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

Wasn't a penalty.

F1 seems to be intentionally trying to drive itself out of business.

Liberty should take notice of the intense anger of the fans in Montreal today. That is what is spreading throughout the F1 community right now.

They need to fix this.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

Nigel Mansell CBE

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@nigelmansell
7h7 hours ago

"Very very embarrassing. No joy in watching this race, two champions driving brilliantly, will end in a false result."

https://twitter.com/nigelmansell
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

Moral victory:

Image
Last edited by overboost on 10 Jun 19, 12:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by ActionJackson »

Interesting that the issue of the Damon Hill and Michael Schumacher crash in the late 90s was brought up. That incident has been analysed and picked apart. If Damon had it to do again he should have backed out and he'd have won the race and the championship. There is a strong suspicion that Schumacher knew immediately that his car was crippled and deliberately took out Damon Hill.

Who knows the real truth......I'm a Schumacher fan of old and I don't know.

I do know that Lewis Hamilton was very smart to back out as the gap closed today.

F1 could take a lesson from IRL here. They could have told Vettel to give the position to Hamilton and then we might have seen a "Battle Royal". That would have kept the race exciting till the end, and, as I said above, I think Vettel would have won and really earned it without any controversy.

I hope the stewards get to consider that option and I hope they even have that option in their rule book.

The suggestion that we should let them race is just not sensible. We cannot have an "anything goes" attitude in amateur or professional racing. Some of the things that NASCAR has let people get away with is disgraceful and exceedingly dangerous in a sport that is dangerous enough already.

The rules are there for a reason. I've sat in my car on the grid, waiting and asked why the delay, and why the workers were crying. This was and SCCA race at Sears Point. The cars are indeed safer and drivers walk away from horrendous accidents...but not all the time.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by myownalias »

I'm not suggesting it should be a free for all, there obviously has to be rules, but the rules, in my opinion have become too intrusive, stifling racing.

Just for clarification, I was not talking specifically of the infamous Adelaide '94 incident, more of the general rivalry between Hill and Schumacher during that period.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

Mario Andretti on Twitter:

"I think the function of the stewards is to penalize flagrantly unsafe moves not honest mistakes as result of hard racing. What happened at Canadian GP is not acceptable at this level of our great sport"
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

Daniel Ricciardo:

"If he pulls a little further to the left, he'll spin. When he brakes on the grass, he'll spin too. There was not much room for Lewis but still enough.I had an identical situation with Lewis in 2016 Monte Carlo. He had to go through the emergency exit and almost pushed me into the wall on his return. With me it was tighter than now with him. He didn't get a penalty. That was a good thing. It was a hard racing."

Source: AMuS
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by sagi58 »

ActionJackson wrote:...But I hated the steward's penalty.

I would have told the team that they had the choice of telling the Ferrari team that they had a choice:

Give Hamilton the position OR take the 5 second penalty.


Ferrari almost certainly would have taken the option of giving up the position.....And then we would have seen a battle to the end. I don't know how that would have turned out. but I would have loved to see the battle...


Great insight!! Yup... if Ferrari had the choice, they probably would have done as you suggested.
Having said that, did Vettel have enough time/tires to build up his lead to over 5 seconds?
Or could the penalty have been imposed as 10 seconds?
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by overboost »

The Merc was faster all day and just sat on Vettel's wing for the last 20 laps. No racing involved after the penalty.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by sagi58 »

myownalias wrote:...I personally don't have a dog in the race, I'm neither a Hamilton nor Vettel fan, from a neutral's perspective, the FIA has killed racing by making these decisions, often favoring Mercedes...

It's time we relaxed the penalties and allow drivers to race, over-regulation is killing F1...


Totally agree with you! (p.s. really like what your response would have been! haha)
Here's the thing... without all these benefits/advantages that Mercedes/Hamilton have
had these last few years, Hamilton wouldn't be breaking all these records that were
previously held (mostly) by Schumi...
It would seem the FIA is trying to "build" a modern-day hero in Hamilton.
Unfortunately, they are literally cutting off their nose to spite their face.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by sagi58 »

overboost wrote:The Merc was faster all day and just sat on Vettel's wing for the last 20 laps. No racing involved after the penalty.


Why would they bother? They knew they had it wrapped up.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by sagi58 »

overboost wrote:Nigel Mansell CBE

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@nigelmansell
7h7 hours ago

"Very very embarrassing. No joy in watching this race, two champions driving brilliantly, will end in a false result."

https://twitter.com/nigelmansell


True... it was a FALSE result, with Hamilton being the benefactor... again!!
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Re: Sebastian Vettel's controversial five-second penalty.

Post by sagi58 »

overboost wrote:Mario Andretti on Twitter:

"I think the function of the stewards is to penalize flagrantly unsafe moves not honest mistakes as result of hard racing. What happened at Canadian GP is not acceptable at this level of our great sport"


Maybe the Stewards thought Vettel "deliberately" made the move?
Maybe they don't know what they standings look like and this wouldn't have made a significant difference there.
Maybe the Stewards should have called Vettel in BEFORE applying the penalty?
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