FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[darwin dali]

Fines for parts failing? 1st that would disadvantage smaller, poorer teams. 2nd that might encourage designs that are faster, but less sturdy, basically throw-away parts (because the rich teams can afford to do so). Not a good idea.
If it's actions like the accident, then fines are ok (rather than point deductions).

[CYNIC]

If this is such an issue, the best thing would be to stop watching.
As a kid, I watched wrestling with my Dad; but, when I realized it
truly was publicity driven I stopped.

That might work for you, too, rather than work yourself up.
Not worth it!

Who's worked up ? Impertinence will get you nowhere...

[quote sagi58] Your comments were not delivered in such a way as to foster discussion

LOL!

[quote sagi58[ In fact, you seem to have arrived at a conclusion, before any discussion ever started,
just look at the title you've given the thread.[/quote]

What forum proposition doesn't, he was the most recent -and glaring - example of one of the problems

... You don't even seem to understand this is a forum deliberately set up to consider matters pertaining to F1...

[quote sagi58] I do understand what a forum is; but, you don't seem to understand that not everyone will have your perspective. [/quote]

If they did there wouldn't be any need for a forum! You don't understand anything


[Quote sagi58] Personally, I believe Hamilton's had an easy time of it, in F1. Far easier than most of the young drivers I've seen since I began following F1 about 10 years ago.[/quote]

You're tunnel visioned regarding Hamilton, note my earlier comment . You clearly didn't pay attention, my original post also noted Ricciardo's treatment , for the benefit of another young driver - whose father has connections - who certainly got it easy, and with less talent in my opinion.

...With wrestling - a very poor analogy - the punters who watched enjoyed it as a spectacle, even if many were too naïve to understand it was contrived, so they were not defrauded...

[Quote sagi58] As far as I'm concerned, NO one has ever proven that Hamilton was defrauded of anything.[/Quote]

Not as far as anyone's concerned , that was one of my questions which you persistently avoid " Should the DRIVERS Championship table be skewed by penalising them for MANUFACTURER'S mechanical failures over which they have no control ?"

[Quote sagi58]Those sorts of comments come from fans who refuse to accept that he does not walk on water. [/Quote]

And your sort of comment comes from 'fans' [bigots] who disagree . Get it into your head I am not a 'fan' of Hamilton, or any other F1 driver. That said, whatever the result, I find the post race interviews of Ricciardo the most upbeat and pleasant.

Why not answer my question, and justify skewing the drivers championship by penalising drivers for problems over which they have no control? . Publicity falsifying the engineering quality of F1 manufacturers is misleading the general public , and cleaning up F1 would be one way to stop that...

[Quote sagi58] WoW! You've got it bad, eh? Did you forget that there was illegal tire testing?
Did you forget that Mercedes "helped" F1 write the regulations on turbo engines
and then suggested a freeze on development as a way to cap costs?
Did you forget that his championships with Mercedes were based on these "fixes"?[/Quote sagi58]

There's nothing wrong with my memory, the publicity of today's F1- as far as the general public are concerned - is down to it's TV coverage, but the allegations you 're making were mainly confined to the motoring press. Are you saying that Fi should not be cleaned up further?

[Quote sagi58] Did you forget that Hamilton was the "golden boy" at McLaren and treated as
such to the detriment of an established world champion? [/Quote sagi58]

Did the said world champion tell you that?

[Quote sagi58] ALL drivers have issues with their vehicles, ALL drivers run the same track,
ALL drivers use the same tires and a number of other components. [/Quote sagi58]

So?

...cleaning up F1 would be one way to stop that, to the benefit of those firms with possibly better quality products who cannot afford to partake, and get that publicity. I accept it won't happen, but at least I've tried

[Quote sagi58] And, who would decide what it takes to "clean up F1"? [/Quote sagi58]

Apparently you don't know about the FIA? I believe it's their responsibility

[Quote sagi58] Who would be so impartial and unbiased as to be able to make changes without thinking about how it would affect their favourite team, favourite driver, favourite manufacturer, favourite track? [/Quote sagi58]

Allegations of corruption within the FIA in the past , and undue influence of Constructors like Ferrari who have threatened to quit if they don't get their own way will certainly make it difficult, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done

[Quote sagi58]Come on, let's be serious. F1 has warts, just as everything else does.
It will NEVER be "cleaned up" to the satisfaction of everyone everywhere.[/quote sagi58]

So you obviously admit it's that bad?

[Delfy]

Fines for parts failing? 1st that would disadvantage smaller, poorer teams. 2nd that might encourage designs that are faster, but less sturdy, basically throw-away parts (because the rich teams can afford to do so). Not a good idea.
If it's actions like the accident, then fines are ok (rather than point deductions).

I didn’t say fines for parts failing. I gave the example of fines for unsafe releases as way of penalising the team and not the driver when the driver isn’t at fault.
If you look to my first comment I said deduction of constructors points , and that’s what I’d advocate for something like a gear box change.

Look I’m not rewriting the rules here just putting forward an idea. Clearly the penalties for the team would have to be on a sliding scale as are the drivers penalties.

[darwin dali]

I was responding to your statement:

If something fails on a car before the race, the driver shouldnt take the hit. Like with unsafe releases, they fine the team.

But I get what you're getting at.

[CYNIC]

I think Cynic has a point. If drivers transgress, they get penalised , but if the car fails, why penalise drivers? Take away constructors points instead.
Putting a driver back on the grid often robs spectators of potential battles and penalises the driver through no fault of his own. I’m not sure why the fixation on Hamilton? Its the same for all drivers.

The tunnel visioned fixation on Hamilton has bedevilled some posters, my original post noted others , he was only headlined because his penalties were the most recent and in the news. I raised much wider issues

[sagi58]

... The driver and the team are tied together, win together, lose together. So there's really no point in trying to separate them. Until drivers stop receiving radio communications, stop in the pits, jump out of the car and change tires or replace a damaged nose/wing themselves, F1 remains a team sport.

Completely agree!!

[sagi58]

...If something fails on a car before the race, the driver shouldnt take the hit. Like with unsafe releases, they fine the team .
Well that’s my view.

Good point; but, then, why should the team take a hit, when a driver gets it wrong?
As long as it's equal for all teams, I'm OK with the rules!

[sagi58]

... So you obviously admit it's that bad?

What I will admit is that you and I have different perspectives and I won't belittle your opinions, as you have a right to them, just as I do.
You seem to believe Hamilton walks on water, I don't.
Anything after that, is merely contentious.