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[CookinFlat6]

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Which is where my points about mental weakness and being a bit ragged come from. .

Careful, you'll take someone's eye out with all that rhetoric. There's a difference between saying he's weak and has a weakness.

There seems to be a point up to which you agree with me but refuse to put it down to a mental thing. So, what causes Hamilton to do this.

"The mental strength from Lewis to come back and take the win was unbelievable. In the end two mistakes from Nico have cost him. He put on a brave face but when he goes home and reflects on this he will know he has been well beaten."

I never said it was a weakness. I went at great lengths to explain that, and you went to equal lengths ignoring it.

Now find where I said Nico was stronger mentally.

It's gutting, I get that. But I realise Hamilton has a psychological weakeness that Nico's exploiting by proxy, and it's pointless denying it.

we've seen this before in Hamilton,this psychological weakness we pretend is misfortune.

I just let you prove yourself wrong about something you thought I said months ago, you mean?

You dug your own hole there.

and for bonus culpa points

It can't be assumed that Vettel is the same person as he was in 2010, and the resulting crowns have probably altered his mental state that goes along with natural skill. His mental toughness and avarice (and ridiculously quick car) have probably delivered where his racecraft is lacking.

If you're going to use a term like 'psychobabble mumbo jumbo' you're not doing yourself any favours. I could pull a cookie and say, 'How do you know I've never mentioned mental weaknesses for button and ms? i'll give you odds of five gajillion to one paid in red buttons if you can't find anything.'

and there we have it - the audit trial for all future F1 fans interested in the Lewis v Nico debate to see how not to treat your backbone and integrity in the electronic era

[Hammer278]

Lol Roth just got served.

[What's Burning?]

I like Lewis. I do however credit Nico, he's driving better than he's ever driven in his career.

I like that Lewis is beating the guy that everyone at the beginning of the year was crediting with clearly being more adept at these "complex" cars. Lewis has handily out tire managed, out fuel conserved and out raced the "smart" guy. Anyone that said otherwise is a buffoon or a h8r, but allow me to expand on my likes.

I like that Nico's entire points lead was predicated on underhanded tactics which handed him that lead when coupled with Lewis' terrible misfortune in qualifying issues and reliability.

I like that Lewis has turned every pole (when he's finished a race) into a victory, whereas Nico has a recurring theme of not being able to defend poles with the exception of Monaco. And worse, taking certain victories away from Mercedes and handing them to Red Bull.

I like that the statistics and results speak for themselves, and I like that barring a catastrophic DNF for Hamilton in Abu Dhabi, the championship is his to lose. I like that even if that were to happen, his driving speaks for itself.

But what I'm going to enjoy most is the immense inflamed butt hurt every h8r that's ever visited this place is going to feel all winter long. The sweet sweet enjoyment of their misery is almost palpable now.

Soon, my precious.

[The Second Coming]

I like Lewis. I do however credit Nico, he's driving better than he's ever driven in his career.

I like that Lewis is beating the guy that everyone at the beginning of the year was crediting with clearly being more adept at these "complex" cars. Lewis has handily out tire managed, out fuel conserved and out raced the "smart" guy. Anyone that said otherwise is a buffoon or a h8r, but allow me to expand on my likes.

I like that Nico's entire points lead was predicated on underhanded tactics which handed him that lead when coupled with Lewis' terrible misfortune in qualifying issues and reliability.

I like that Lewis has turned every pole (when he's finished a race) into a victory, whereas Nico has a recurring theme of not being able to defend poles with the exception of Monaco. And worse, taking certain victories away from Mercedes and handing them to Red Bull.

I like that the statistics and results speak for themselves, and I like that barring a catastrophic DNF for Hamilton in Abu Dhabi, the championship is his to lose. I like that even if that were to happen, his driving speaks for itself.

But what I'm going to enjoy most is the immense inflamed butt hurt every h8r that's ever visited this place is going to feel all winter long. The sweet sweet enjoyment of their misery is almost palpable now.

Soon, my precious.

It's very much like the silly sods who said Lewis was dumb for 1. leaving McLaren and 2. going to Mercedes, a team mired in the mid-pack with cars that ate the rear tyres like a fat kid on cake. WB, sometimes you just gotta let them talk...wind themselves up.

Such fun!

[overboost]

Wow these are really cookin's comments made during the race?!

Hardly any deg for Lewis, Bottas has run into deg now, but I doubt Nico will keep 3rd with those tyres

why is the cerebral Nico doing purples on 37 lap old tyres when bottas with 15 lap old tyres is behind him?b If Nico has to change tyres he will have done the dumbeest thing ever

They feel good for now eh Nico, ever heard of the cliff?

But as an informed observer with the live data you had claimed that Nico's pit stop plan and tire management was not astonishing nor a surprise. Yet your comments above show otherwise! Nico must have really blown your socks off when he made his play and took it to the finish. Maybe you just don't understand the data! In fact you said he was dumb for driving fast and setting purples, but isn't that what race car drivers are supposed to do!

I wasnt there but I rely on the data that was beamed live - this is more useful to an informed observer than siting track side with a limited view and no understanding of the data is to a muppet. Nico did well, amazing even, he was very fast, he didnt crash, he even overtook a few people. Nico is very fast - Anyone of the top 5 drivers in the WDC table could have done what Rosberg did in that Merc but only one could do the things Rosberg hasnt done

[CookinFlat6]

[youtube]09-GbpOd9T4[/youtube]

Great clip, wish I could create a gif version of the clip, toned down for amatuers - 'as one thicko goes out another comes in'

Wow these are really cookin's comments made during the race?!

But as an informed observer with the live data you had claimed that Nico's pit stop plan and tire management was not astonishing nor a surprise. Yet your comments above show otherwise! Nico must have really blown your socks off when he made his play and took it to the finish. Maybe you just didn't understand the data! In fact you said he was dumb for driving fast and setting purples, but isn't that what race car drivers are supposed to do!

I wasnt there but I rely on the data that was beamed live - this is more useful to an informed observer than siting track side with a limited view and no understanding of the data is to a muppet. Nico did well, amazing even, he was very fast, he didnt crash, he even overtook a few people. Nico is very fast - Anyone of the top 5 drivers in the WDC table could have done what Rosberg did in that Merc but only one could do the things Rosberg hasnt done

Lets go slowly with the facts we have
The Merc was by far the fastest car in Russia
Only Nico and Lewis drive Mercs
Tyre deg is something that cause a tyre to lose performance permanently once it starts - the contact patch stops working as designed - due to the wearing away of the rubber/synthetic content.
A tyre without deg doesnt lose performance to deg
Recent tyres were designed to degrade at different abnormally fast rates
Once the deg starts it doesnt get better - it gets worse
A cliff refers to the design of the tyres to not degrade to zero performance linearly or to start late and degrade completely almost instantly
In Russia the track was perfect - no imperfections to degrade the tyres
Soft tyres suffer more deg that hard tyres
The hard tyres belonging to Nico Bottas and Lewis sufered zero deg - purples for each in final laps
Nico didnt encounter any deg so he finished without stopping - thats all he did, if he had done something special he would have beaten Lewis
There is no evidence Nico had a setup better than Lewis'
There is no evidence Nico was any faster than Lewis could have gone HAD he chosen to go faster
There is overwhelming evidence Lewis is the superior race day driver and better at setup
Nico encountered problems over heating/over working his tyres due to lack of race craft - Lewis in that position would have gone quicker without the performence drop off Nico suffered at points during the race - I saw this on the lap times, and Nico confirmed this - he had to several times change his style to get the tyre working again - this is niothing to do with deg
Lewis had no such issues with his tyres at all
Bottas over worked his softs and the Williams took time to get the hards to right temp range - he also had zero deg and was the fastest driver at the end despite Nico having a car thats much faster (dont be thick - dont say this was because of the age of Nicos tyres - because the age issue is only a functuion of deg - and there was no deg remember?)

So in conclusion Nico did nothing Lewis or Bottas could not have done in the Merc. It was amazing that he did so many laps on one tyre - but there is a perfectly good explanation - zero deg - Nico kept driving fast waiting till the drop off - which never came so he didnt stop.
On the timing screens he had periods of drop off that looked to an informed observer like deg starting, but later this was proven to be poor racecraft by overheating the tyres by driving them the wrong way round bends - Only the driver would be able to differentiate this from deg - until the performance went back up - immediately signalling to an informed observer that there was no deg (performance never comes back after the onset of deg, graining is a different aspect that can be overcome if it is evened)

Nico would feel the deg starting through the wheel and the seat of his pants before an observer watching the lap times

So thats it - Nico did not have a faster setup, did worse with his tyres than Lewis, and was slower than Bottas at the end despite a much faster car - and the age of both sets of tyres - Bottas and Nico - didnt matter cos there was zero deg

Lewis was cruising at the end, Nico was racing hard vs Bottas yet Bottas was quicker than Nico (tyre age dont matter - zero deg), and Lewis was quicker than Bottas when they did race earlier, so your claim of Nico possibly winning the race without his poor racecraft induced error is

Maybe you 3 can get together and come for schooling all at once - might be better for you

[Roth]

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Which is where my points about mental weakness and being a bit ragged come from. .

Careful, you'll take someone's eye out with all that rhetoric. There's a difference between saying he's weak and has a weakness.

There seems to be a point up to which you agree with me but refuse to put it down to a mental thing. So, what causes Hamilton to do this.

"The mental strength from Lewis to come back and take the win was unbelievable. In the end two mistakes from Nico have cost him. He put on a brave face but when he goes home and reflects on this he will know he has been well beaten."

I never said it was a weakness. I went at great lengths to explain that, and you went to equal lengths ignoring it.

Now find where I said Nico was stronger mentally.

It's gutting, I get that. But I realise Hamilton has a psychological weakeness that Nico's exploiting by proxy, and it's pointless denying it.

we've seen this before in Hamilton,this psychological weakness we pretend is misfortune.

I just let you prove yourself wrong about something you thought I said months ago, you mean?

You dug your own hole there.

and for bonus culpa points

It can't be assumed that Vettel is the same person as he was in 2010, and the resulting crowns have probably altered his mental state that goes along with natural skill. His mental toughness and avarice (and ridiculously quick car) have probably delivered where his racecraft is lacking.

If you're going to use a term like 'psychobabble mumbo jumbo' you're not doing yourself any favours. I could pull a cookie and say, 'How do you know I've never mentioned mental weaknesses for button and ms? i'll give you odds of five gajillion to one paid in red buttons if you can't find anything.'

and there we have it - the audit trial for all future F1 fans interested in the Lewis v Nico debate to see how not to treat your backbone and integrity in the electronic era

Are you highlighting 'weakness' because you think I never said he had a weakness? It wasn't 'mental weakness' I was denying, it was the term 'mentally weak' which you kept using against me and getting wrong. Seems like you still are.

And what has Vettel got to do with any of it?

This is just grasping at straws and another cookie audit fail as far as I can see.

[CookinFlat6]

thats what I meant in the older days we had snivelling welchers who would dk you (didnt know, i.e it was all a big mistake, i didnt realise blha blah, i dint mean blah blah, mental weakness is not the same as pychological weakness etc etc) but where 'my word is my bond' came into play was this rule - 'once a snivelling welsher, always a snivelling welscher' so it was just a matter of short time before no one would touch the welsher even with their clerks pole

Anyways with this audit trial any dispute can be settled real quick, so guess what no more welsching - except by the real harden grizzled old school brazens - 'oh I cant be botherd to dig up the evidence, no it was entered wrong? '

Dont worry I understand, in this case - you didnt say Lewis had a mental weakness that Nico was exploiting - nope it was written in your post but A) it didnt mean that he has a mental weakness and B) You didnt write that

It wasn't 'mental weakness' I was denying, it was the term 'mentally weak' which you kept using against me and getting wrong. Seems like you still are.

[Roth]

thats what I meant in the older days we had snivelling welchers who would dk you (didnt know, i.e it was all a big mistake, i didnt realise blha blah, i dint mean blah blah, mental weakness is not the same as pychological weakness etc etc) but where 'my word is my bond' came into play was this rule - 'once a snivelling welsher, always a snivelling welscher' so it was just a matter of short time before no one would touch the welsher even with their clerks pole

Anyways with this audit trial any dispute can be settled real quick, so guess what no more welsching - except by the real harden grizzled old school brazens - 'oh I cant be botherd to dig up the evidence, no it was entered wrong? '

Dont worry I understand, in this case - you didnt say Lewis had a mental weakness that Nico was exploiting - nope it was written in your post but A) it didnt mean that he has a mental weakness and B) You didnt write that

It wasn't 'mental weakness' I was denying, it was the term 'mentally weak' which you kept using against me and getting wrong. Seems like you still are.

So you're working from your own misquote to prove me wrong?

[CookinFlat6]

It wasn't 'mental weakness' I was denying, it was the term 'mentally weak' which you kept using against me and getting wrong. Seems like you still are.

Ah ok, I am wrong you are not a welcher because having a mental weakness that has plagued him his whole career and that we pretend is misfortune is completely unrelated to being mentally weak, even though his mental weakness causes him to 'bottle it' and to get beaten by his teammate???

So the guy in hospital is suffering from a medical illness but its a fail to call him ill???

and the guy who drives fast can automatically not be regarded as fast??

and the Aussie farm hand who molests sheep cannot be called a sheep molester?

and a guy who lies cannot be called a liar??

and a guy who is missing a leg cannot be called disabled???

and the guy who has physically strength cannot be called strong???

and the forum member who jacks off his pet mule cannot be called a jackass???

[CookinFlat6]

Are you highlighting 'weakness' because you think I never said he had a weakness? It wasn't 'mental weakness' I was denying, it was the term 'mentally weak' which you kept using against me and getting wrong. Seems like you still are.

And what has Vettel got to do with any of it?

This is just grasping at straws and another cookie audit fail as far as I can see.

Ok my mistake, you admit to declaring Hamilton has/had a mental weakness, you also declared that Seb was mentally tough

quick question can you confirm that you have or have not changed your mind about the Lewis mental weakness that manifests as misfortune? or do you still stand by it?

yes or no? (or blahblahbsbsbsbsblahblah)

actually, you know what - forget it - you are a waste of space

lets hope theres someone out there who has something coherent to bring to a heated debate, like overboost but with quadruple natures half ration wit endowment, or like sagi but with even a quarter of a clue and a 1 sentence + reasoning capability - where have the challenging forumerz disappeared to since Nico confirmed that he looks more intellectual racing wise than he actually is.
We used to get a higher quality of memberz - once who would argue that moving to Merc was an indicator of how Lewis couldnt think for himself

[Roth]

oookaaay.

[What's Burning?]

Only DNFs matter now.

[CookinFlat6]

If Dnfs were only a function of engine use and wear and tear, lewis would have the advantage as his final engine cruised in Sochi, and Nicos was pushed hard. You would expect that the design flaws have all been exposed by now - the ones that are likely to pop. And apart from other drivers making a point it should be doable for Lewis to wear a non Abu dnf and win the other 2. Whereas Nico cannot afford any dnf.

Also Lewis can win one more race then trail Nico for the rest. I think Lewis has a better chance and that he more than Nico should benefit from equal Merc unreliability, as Nico will need 2 dnfs from Lewis to seriously have a chance. On the other hand we should factor in and expect another drama from Lewis

Would be some very exciting betting opportunities over the last 3 races if it wasnt for the fact that all those rooting for Nico earlier seem to have all disappeared, gone silent and/or stopped watching F1

[What's Burning?]

I think Geet has been incarcerated. It's the only splanation.