FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[myownalias]

I was so hoping for a Williams victory today after that massively impressive start and I feel that it was Williams that caused their own downfall. First of all not allowing Bottas to pass when it was clear that the Finn was being held up by Massa and second, waiting so long to change to inters when Bottas was screaming for inters over the radio. I feel this was massive missed opportunity to claim a double podium at minimum. This is the first time that Mercedes have been under pressure since China as proven by the dummy pitstop to attempt to fool Williams into pitting. In dry conditions Williams were fast enough to beat them on merit and Mercedes were let off by the weather and Williams' poor strategy calls.

[Stephen]

I was so hoping for a Williams victory today after that massively impressive start and I feel that it was Williams that caused their own downfall. First of all not allowing Bottas to pass when it was clear that the Finn was being held up by Massa and second, waiting so long to change to inters when Bottas was screaming for inters over the radio. I feel this was massive missed opportunity to claim a double podium at minimum. This is the first time that Mercedes have been under pressure since China as proven by the dummy pitstop to attempt to fool Williams into pitting. In dry conditions Williams were fast enough to beat them on merit and Mercedes were let off by the weather and Williams' poor strategy calls.

Totally agree about Williams. They've done this before, running at the front but failing to read or react to the situation appropriately. I think Bottas would have been ahead of Lewis after the first pitstop had Massa let him through - although the press would grab this with both hands and drag up the 'Alonso is faster than you' quote from Hockenheim 2010.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--WHg4Q2Xrs

In terms of other runners, Raikkonen still has no luck with the weather - I remember Malaysia a few years ago when he ran around on inters hoping it would rain - it didn't. And as for Rosberg, very surprised he was unable to pass the Williams with everything turned up. Do you think Hamilton would have struggled?

[Jabberwocky]

I don't think Williams could of done anything to win the race. Even if they had let Bottas go out front the Mercs where too fast in the wet

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[Stephen]

I don't think Williams could of done anything to win the race. Even if they had let Bottas go out front the Mercs where too fast in the wet

Had it stayed dry it may have been close!

[darwin dali]

I was surprised how well NR drove in the wet on slicks, taking 2 sec per lap from LH and forcing him to make that call for inters, which turned out to be the perfect call as it started to pour the second he came out of the box.

[sagi58]

It's all about the timing, me thinks!!

It's too bad that Williams didn't release Bottas!!
Much as Massa is a nice guy, that's not going to
win them races... or podium steps!!

Very happy things worked out for Vettel in the end!!
Poor Kimi... the F1 gods really have it in for him!!

[sagi58]

Quick question (probably a long answer!!):

What do you think might have happened if a "real" safety car had come out, instead of the virtual SC, near the end of the race??

I haven't decided if I actually like that concept!! Would love to hear pros and cons, so I can make an educated choice!!

edited for grammar...

[RyRy]

Ok.... lol

In dry conditions Williams were fast enough to beat them on merit and Mercedes were let off by the weather and Williams' poor strategy calls.

Apart from the fact that Hamilton re-gained 1st place in the dry... and Rosberg I'm sure would have eventually got past, especially if like Mercedes thought that the Williams' tyres would go off.

Now as for Rosberg being faster on the slicks at the end of the first wet period, this is because Hamilton had lost all of his tyre pressure and temperature just like Massa and Bottas had. The reason Rosberg hadn't is because he was sat in behind Bottas during most of the wet which kept his tyres up to temperature and pressure because of the hot dirty air.

Checkout: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/33404573 and read it carefully.

[Stephen]

I was surprised how well NR drove in the wet on slicks, taking 2 sec per lap from LH and forcing him to make that call for inters, which turned out to be the perfect call as it started to pour the second he came out of the box.

True, perhaps running more wing which might explain why he couldn't surpass the Williams when dry?

[myownalias]

In dry conditions Williams were fast enough to beat them on merit and Mercedes were let off by the weather and Williams' poor strategy calls.

Apart from the fact that Hamilton re-gained 1st place in the dry... and Rosberg I'm sure would have eventually got past, especially if like Mercedes thought that the Williams' tyres would go off.

If you go back and read my whole post, it says if Williams had let the clearly faster Bottas pass after the SC period on lap 4, Williams had the pace to win the race in the dry.

Please don't cherry pick parts of statements and pass it off as the complete statement!

[RyRy]

If you go back and read my whole post, it says if Williams had let the clearly faster Bottas pass after the SC period on lap 4, Williams had the pace to win the race in the dry.

Please don't cherry pick parts of statements and pass it off as the complete statement!

The same applies, Hamilton pitted and they took 2 or 3 laps till they pitted which was 4 seconds worth of time for Hamilton.

Bottas was not 4 seconds faster over 20 laps than Massa, he was fractionally faster and if they let Botass through the same outcome would of happened with Massa, Hamilton and Rosberg in tow.

Look at how much faster Hamilton was than William's was in clean air. Mercedes could have pitted early or pitted late and still won.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[myownalias]

How do you know that Bottas wasn't four seconds faster than Massa over those 20 laps? how many times have we seen much faster cars being held up for lap after lap because of the dirty air coming off the car in front and go 1/2 - 1 second quicker in clear air. Mercedes themselves had that problem, making the undercut all important. It's a bold statement to absolutely say that Bottas wouldn't have pulled out a 4+ second gap over 20 laps, it's only 2/10ths a lap, it's more than feasible that Bottas had the pace to pull away at 2/10ths.

[myownalias]

Quick question (probably a long answer!!):

What do you think might have happened if a "real" safety car had come out, instead of the virtual SC, near the end of the race??

I haven't decided if I actually like that concept!! Would love to hear pros and cons, so I can make an education choice!!

I don't think you get a choice... well maybe turn off the TV...

I personally like the VSC, for example, there's a incident that would normally require a safety car and a driver had been driving for 40 laps in the lead and created a 20 second gap, it's unfair that all that hard work is undone should the now bunched up field pounce and take away that lead or worse take the lead driver out. I think a system like the VSC that limits speed but maintains the gap is the much fairer system plus it allows for racing to be resumed quicker. Plus there is he safety aspect, as proven by the Bianchi incident a safety car does not prevent accidents if some drivers exceed safe speeds to reach the back of the pack after pitstops or to unlap themselves .

[RyRy]

How do you know that Bottas wasn't four seconds faster than Massa over those 20 laps? how many times have we seen much faster cars being held up for lap after lap because of the dirty air coming off the car in front and go 1/2 - 1 second quicker in clear air. Mercedes themselves had that problem, making the undercut all important. It's a bold statement to absolutely say that Bottas wouldn't have pulled out a 4+ second gap over 20 laps, it's only 2/10ths a lap, it's more than feasible that Bottas had the pace to pull away at 2/10ths.

I know because Williams were doing the lap times they were expected to do during the stint and it doesn't take a genius to know, realise and see that slipstream effect is very high on this track.

Bottas was only fractionally faster with tow and DRS on a track with very little negatives from behind behind a car, they're is more positive than negative, the negative effect is between 2 and 3 seconds behind.

Massa was faster all weekend and had better long run pace than Bottas so I'm all likelihood Massa was actually faster and was only under pressure because of DRS and tow.

Bottas made the call on lap 9 asking about racing his team mate, so he would have been given the opportunity on lap 10

Mercedes pitted in lap 19, that's 9 laps to make up 4 seconds, Massa pitted on lap 21, so if that was Bottas that's 2 laps and Hamilton went 2 seconds a lap faster (all drivers were 1.5-2 seconds a lap faster on fresh tyres)

That means Bottas needed to be 4 tenths faster than Massa and Hamilton per lap, which is massively unlikely.

Now what about the fact that Mercedes were 6-9 tenths a lap faster than William's in qualifying/practice on the harder tire, they were also 2-4 tenths faster in free air (Hamilton vs Massa) in the race

Mercedes also pitted early because they knew that Williams couldn't pit that early because their tyres wouldn't last if the race was all dry.

Now as for it being wet, look how they lost tons of time per lap, Williams' car is awful in the wet, they ended up over a pit stop behind.

In every scenario Mercedes would have won, if you can't see, understand or comprehend that then what can I say that isn't rude/offensive.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[sagi58]

... how many times have we seen much faster cars being held up for lap after lap because of the dirty air coming off the car in front ...

Maybe we can ask Alonso that question? Betcha he'd have a real story to tell!!
Still hurts, after all this time!!