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[Hammer278]

I am not sure what a mentalist is, sounds like a fundamentalist but I'm sure it means something to you. No I had to search recently for your post where you said Lewis had a mental weakness as evidenced by getting out quailified by the narrowest margins by his teammate, and then you said Seb was mentally strong because, despite getting b!tched slapped, and battered by his teammate he was putting up a good fight and was therefore evenly matched.

Maybe thats what you mean by mentalist

[Roth]

I am not sure what a mentalist is, sounds like a fundamentalist but I'm sure it means something to you. No I had to search recently for your post where you said Lewis had a mental weakness as evidenced by getting out quailified by the narrowest margins by his teammate, and then you said Seb was mentally strong because, despite getting b!tched slapped, and battered by his teammate he was putting up a good fight and was therefore evenly matched.

Maybe thats what you mean by mentalist

Repeating what you got wrong about what you thought i wrote in the first place doesn't make it right.

[sagi58]

I am not sure what a mentalist is, sounds like a fundamentalist but I'm sure it means something to you. No I had to search recently for your post where you said Lewis had a mental weakness as evidenced by getting out quailified by the narrowest margins by his teammate, and then you said Seb was mentally strong because, despite getting b!tched slapped, and battered by his teammate he was putting up a good fight and was therefore evenly matched.

Maybe thats what you mean by mentalist

Repeating what you got wrong about what you thought i wrote in the first place doesn't make it right.

Isn't that like repeating a mantra!!

[CookinFlat6]

This is the Abu Double thread so i dont want to pollute it with evidence of roths PROVEN lies

And its typical some have no clue what the conversation is about before jumping in to post meaningless banalities

But for ANYONE with INTEGRITY who would like to make their mind up for themselves

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13404&start=2279

[What's Burning?]

I'm not sure how you could be impressed by Vettel. No matter how you slice it, he's been out driven by his teammate. First of all you have to consider the fact that when Ricciardo has won, assuming that the Red Bull was under favorable conditions. It's been

Can........Hun....Bel
Ric 1........1.......1
Vet 3........7.......5

Hardly what you could call evenly matched results there.

These are the peaks I mentioned.

Now let's move onto other stats.
.................................Ric..........Vet
Qualified ahead................11.......... 7
Average qualifying gap......-0.046s.......-
Finished race ahead...........10...........3
Laps spent ahead..............428.........48
WDC Points.....................214........159

Very interesting of note here is the laps ahead. Proving that even though evenly matched, he's better at saving his car, tires, fuel, strategy or whatevere he's doing to make a very pronounced push to come out ahead of his teammate. You can say Vettel handled it well, but what's he going to do? He took tons of heat for complaining early in the season, we had the crying game over the radio where he was asking the team to move Alonso out of the way for him pretty please and he had the "tough luck" comment.

Something of even more interest is the qualifying results. Ricciardo leads there by quite a margin. Vettel was always credited with being a one lap master, and that is the one stat that's most shocking of all. I know the cars are difficult to handle and not nearly as planted as last year due to the loss of the blown rear. But even I'm surprised with his qualifying results as compared to Ricciardo, who had previously done relatively well in Qualifying against Vergne, but still... JEV was not a good qualifier.

In the end he's a 4 time WDC who lost his magic carpet ride, and he'll have that 4 time WDC status with him always, but this year showed each and every weakness predicted by Alonso, Hamilton and a lot of the people on this forum. I would have been more inclined to get behind Vettel should he stay and fight it out in his team, Red Bull but his hasty exodus from the team speaks volumes, further underscoring the black and white results above. Let's wait and see what palmares he can add to his dossier at the scuderia.

Expectation has a lot to do with it. Is Vettel failing because he's not repeating past glories, or is Ricc surpassing himself? Or are they doing both? Or neither? It's counterituitive to suppose Vettel is poor and Ricc is great, why can't one be good and the other better? If Vettel is poor, Ricc might only be average to beat him, so to reduce it to he's lost his rocket is a disservice to both drivers. And if Vettel was so great in his rocket, and without it he's lost, it would suppose these regs don't suit him, so these regs might just suit Ricc better than the previous ones, and why it's no use comparing and making definitive statements about drivers in completely different cars. All we know is Ricc took to this year like a duck to water, and Vettel has struggled and had to adapt his technique. And he has adapted slowly and the results show that.

The first half of the season Ricc came out on top more often than not but, peaks apart, not by more than one or two places. Only in Hungary did Ricc leave him for dead. The second half has seen a gradual shift, so now they are evenly matched (not exactly, statistically matched, but we shouldn't automatically go into the w/e expecting Ricc to better Vettel). Since the break it's equal in quali where equality allows. Ricc has finished ahead in races more often, but only 4-3, and like earlier in the season, there's not a lot in it, usually a single place.

So it's the expecation of Vettel trouncing his teammate that's not being fulfilled, not necessarily that Vettel is being owned by Ricc. But it feels like he is, which is the confusing part - we feel like it's a shellacking but it's nowhere near the scale of the Ferrari or McLaren drivers. So his main issues are the tyres, and getting the best out of them by adapting his technique, which as we have seen in previous seasons, cars and drivers are very sensitive to, and can swing championships. It worked in his favour last year, not this year. And if you're struggling with tyres it has a knock on effect to all those other things you mentioned, like fuel and strategy - even overtaking which has been one of Ricc's real strengths this year, that ruthless decisive streak which have been the difference between winning and not winning. And whilst Vettel isn't in that league, this year he's markedly improved, probably because he's had the practice.

And we've been over how he's handling it before, so I'm not going into that again, just to say he could have easily been a sausage and hasn't been.

So you're willing to classify a result where one driver wins and the other comes in fifth and seventh as an anomaly? Then go on to say that Vettel has caught up in the second part of the season (at least in qualifying)? Did you notice Vettel's wing in Spa as compared to Ricciardo? He's gotten better at qualifying because he's realized that's all there is. Try to get some glory on Saturday because it's only his team mate and the Merc boys getting anything on Sunday.

You're a rare breed Roth because you stick around and defend your position, but your "logic" is no different than that used by the lunatic fringe, willing to excuse everything in your guy while niggling and nit picking every minutia on the guy you love to hate. It's not a concern to me, it's very much within your rights as a fan, but don't try to pass off the critical thinker role as a fan to us with Hamilton and then try to slip the Vettel is just going through an anomaly and Ricciardo isn't beating him that badly story. It's actually quite comical to see you try it.

I look forward to your posts next year making excuses for both team and driver when Vettel is wearing his red overalls. The Mia Scuderia lounge has ample seating available at the moment.

to the weekend in Abu Dhabi.

[Roth]

This is the Abu Double thread so i dont want to pollute it with evidence of roths PROVEN lies

And its typical some have no clue what the conversation is about before jumping in to post meaningless banalities

But for ANYONE with INTEGRITY who would like to make their mind up for themselves

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13404&start=2279

Yes, let people read that and see your lack of basic comprehension, and then you having a little hissy fit.

[CookinFlat6]

But for ANYONE with INTEGRITY who would like to make their mind up for themselves
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13404&start=2279

Yes, let people read that and see your lack of basic comprehension, and then you having a little hissy fit.

[Roth]

So you're willing to classify a result where one driver wins and the other comes in fifth and seventh as an anomaly? Then go on to say that Vettel has caught up in the second part of the season (at least in qualifying)? Did you notice Vettel's wing in Spa as compared to Ricciardo? He's gotten better at qualifying because he's realized that's all there is. Try to get some glory on Saturday because it's only his team mate and the Merc boys getting anything on Sunday.

You're a rare breed Roth because you stick around and defend your position, but your "logic" is no different than that used by the lunatic fringe, willing to excuse everything in your guy while niggling and nit picking every minutia on the guy you love to hate. It's not a concern to me, it's very much within your rights as a fan, but don't try to pass off the critical thinker role as a fan to us with Hamilton and then try to slip the Vettel is just going through an anomaly and Ricciardo isn't beating him that badly story. It's actually quite comical to see you try it.

I look forward to your posts next year making excuses for both team and driver when Vettel is wearing his red overalls. The Mia Scuderia lounge has ample seating available at the moment.

to the weekend in Abu Dhabi.

I'm not making excuses for anyone. Vettel's not 'my guy'. I offer good and bad criticism of all drivers. It's only those with a propensity
for schoolboy allegiances who see the world in black and white who might not see this. I'm just saying Vettel hasn't done as poorly as
we might have thought, and that a possible fourth in the standings is a reflection of that. I was trying to put some perspective on a
year that is considered poor for Vettel.

It seems whatever he does, improves quali, starts beating Ricc in races, doesn't matter, because there's just a way for it to be
explained away into inconsequentiality. That's pretty tedious. And while you stick around and defend your position, your stance
is no different to that of a fanboy, willing to excuse everything in your guy while niggling and nit picking every minutia on the guys
you love to hate.

[What's Burning?]

I have left plenty of evidence in these threads calling my guy a bonehead. You on the other hand don't really have a "guy" just a guy that you're extremely critical of, and then all the other guys you make excuses for.

It's not about Vettel coming in 4th or 6th as if that would have any bearing on things. It's about his (practically rookie) teammate wiping the floor with him, and then the 4 time WDC abandoning ship because an inability to turn the tables around on Ricciardo next year would prove him a complete sham not just a partial sham and he'd only get 40 million a year from Ferrari instead of 50. You seem quite irritated, but if you take as good as you give we're good, but if you're going to cry foul for me very factually stating my points about Vettel while your points about my guy are all subjective. I'm going to call you out on it. Only one yardstick in this playground.

You've already exceeded credentials for membership in the mia scuderia lounge with those double standards and no recollection of what you said (or a fantastic ability to deny) outside of the last 72 hours.

[CookinFlat6]

In 64 seasons of Formula One racing, the eventual Champion has trailed entering the final round on 10 occasions and they are fairly evenly spaced out over this time frame. No driver has ever led the Championship entering the final round on 2 separate occasions and failed to capture the crown both times

[Roth]

I have left plenty of evidence in these threads calling my guy a bonehead. You on the other hand don't really have a "guy" just a guy that you're extremely critical of, and then all the other guys you make excuses for.

So if I say something nice about Button and Vettel I'm a 'insert name here' fan, even if I criticise them also, but when I say something negative about Hamilton despite being by and large supportive of him I'm a hater and extremely critical? Is that it? Or do you have selective processing? Which one seems closer to the truth?

It's not about Vettel coming in 4th or 6th as if that would have any bearing on things. It's about his (practically rookie) teammate wiping the floor with him, and then the 4 time WDC abandoning ship because an inability to turn the tables around on Ricciardo next year would prove him a complete sham not just a partial sham and he'd only get 40 million a year from Ferrari instead of 50. You seem quite irritated, but if you take as good as you give we're good, but if you're going to cry foul for me very factually stating my points about Vettel while your points about my guy are all subjective. I'm going to call you out on it. Only one yardstick in this playground.

I'm not irritated. If you want to see the world in schoolboy terms that's your choice. If you want to start everything from the narrow POV of 'he's sh!t' and take it from there, go gangbusters. Just everything that leads off from there is tainted, which is evidenced by you not giving him any credit for improving, and falling back on the 'he's running away' argument, when he's sat there most of the season and taken it on the chin, always wanted to emulate his hero and go to Ferrari, and was in talks with them from very early on. There may be some opportunism in there too, but it's not all about running away from Ricc. And when I point out that he's not being owned like Kimi or Mag, you go to a 'it's not about the results' argument, when the results is what you're judging him on. So which one is it? It's about the results, which he is improving on and largely matching Ricc, or is it about something else? Something else mainly being your jaundiced view taking over.

You've already exceeded credentials for membership in the mia scuderia lounge with those double standards and no recollection of what you said (or a fantastic ability to deny) outside of the last 72 hours.

oh yeah, burn. That one really hurt. ouch. yikes. aye carumba. zowie.

Or maybe you shouldn't automatically take cookie's word on something. I thought you'd grown out of your puppy stage, but we all regress when necessity dictates.

[What's Burning?]

Speaking of puppies, you can shove their nose in it it but what's the point after a few hours. You can pretend you didn't say it all you want, and even when your nose is rubbed in it, it's not what you said or what you meant or, the excuses go on and on. Have some dignity man!

[CookinFlat6]

Just everything that leads off from there is tainted, which is evidenced by you not giving him any credit for improving, and falling back on the 'he's running away' argument, when he's sat there most of the season and taken it on the chin, always wanted to emulate his hero and go to Ferrari, and was in talks with them from very early on. There may be some opportunism in there too, but it's not all about running away from Ricc.

Guess you are selective about reading what Seb himself says

Sebastian Vettel has slammed Grand Prix racing’s V6 turbo formula.

And as he waits to announce his future at Ferrari, the German revealed he considered quitting the sport before he signed up for Maranello.

Outgunned by Red Bull teammate Daniel Ricciardo and unable to come to terms with his race machine he admitted: "Of course, you think about everything.

oh yeah, burn. That one really hurt. ouch. yikes. aye carumba. zowie.

Or maybe you shouldn't automatically take cookie's word on something. I thought you'd grown out of your puppy stage, but we all regress when necessity dictates.

but but but Roth, you said a couple of posts ago that we could just let anyone read your own posts by clicking the link I provided and let them make up their own mind whether you said Lewis had a mental weakness or wether I was reading comprehension challenged and having a 'hissy fit'

Now you are berating someone for having done just that - So anyone reading the posts where you say the guy is weak mentally ARE ALL reading 'comprehension challenged'

You cant play it both ways and hope no one notices, some people take this F1 lark seriously

heres the link in case you missed it

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13404&start=2279

[Roth]

oh yeah, burn. That one really hurt. ouch. yikes. aye carumba. zowie.

Or maybe you shouldn't automatically take cookie's word on something. I thought you'd grown out of your puppy stage, but we all regress when necessity dictates.

but but but Roth, you said a couple of posts ago that we could just let anyone read your own posts by clicking the link I provided and let them make up their own mind whether you said Lewis had a mental weakness or wether I was reading comprehension challenged and having a 'hissy fit'

Now you are berating someone for having done just that - So anyone reading the posts where you say the guy is weak mentally ARE ALL reading 'comprehension challenged'

You cant play it both ways and hope no one notices, some people take this F1 lark seriously

OMFG, you are still getting it wrong. So yes, you are all 'comprehension challenged.'

[Roth]

Speaking of puppies, you can shove their nose in it it but what's the point after a few hours. You can pretend you didn't say it all you want, and even when your nose is rubbed in it, it's not what you said or what you meant or, the excuses go on and on. Have some dignity man!

Say what exactly? If cookie got it wrong and he's smarter than you what makes you think you're going to do any better? Read it from the beginning, and see how cookie gets it wrong. If you can't see that, that's not my problem.