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[What's Burning?]

I was waiting to read that he also blamed Lewis for leaving McLaren in shambles after his selfish move to Mercedes and he (Button) having to clean the mess up all on his own.

[CookinFlat6]

Good points above. Button was off the line with a faster car behind. Its beyond me how anyone can say Lewis was at fault for committing to the inside. Button first said he wasnt leaving the door open because he is now a racer, then later said he could see how Lewis saw an open door.

between those 2 comments is the fact that those blaming Lewis (for rashness, not for mixed signal reading) cant and wont even begin to address - why was Button wide only to cut back into the line? he made at least one mistake of either not been aware Lewis was around, or being aware and stupid. You dont open a door then slam it with the guy halfway through

So at the very worst case for Lewis, now Button admits he did give the impression of leaving the door open to the faster car - racing incident
however first button says he was racing (and so there was no door) then says there was a door (presumably by mistake and he didnt know Lewis was there)

But as usual the Lewis 'unappreciators' do not have time or patience to check the evidence or facts and instead stand behind their right to have another opinion they cannot defend, and so resort to the usual backtracking/sidestepping obsfucation withdrawal strategy hoping it will be forgotten.

As said above the 'unappreciators' have been coming thick and fast over the years, with more and more interesting opening gambits before eventually showing their true colours and then storming off when realising that the resistance has more depth than on casual forums where passion and bright colours are the depth limit

We could actually find a discussion with operaman that follows the same recent template. Could even cut and paste posts for those for the same amount of good it will do

[Roth]

Roth, you accuse people of taking things you say out of context, but that's exactly what you do. You lump all Hamilton fans together as one entity and brand them all with the same opinions that may have been expressed by one person. You say ' we fanboys' don't accept criticism of Hamilton and then you repost something Hammer said criticising Hamilton??
RyRy has said he is not specifically a Hamilton fan but can appreciate his skill and he calls you out as being unfairly critical of him, so is he lumped into the 'fanboy' pool? As Hamilton supporters the thing we have in common is the supporting of the most exciting and naturally talented driver on the grid. How we express that and what we chose to say in defence of Hamilton when he's criticised unfairly is individual.

You accept a general criticism that's irrefutable, like he messed up Silverstone quali. You don't accept an opinion outside of that. It's all or nothing. If there's even the slightest chance that you can shift blame from Hamilton, you're there.

The Hammer repost included him doing a little bit of psychological analysis saying Hamilton was fearful of Rosberg. He didn't get half a dozen forum members descend in indignation. I find that weird. Maybe becaue he's part of the card carrying club, you let it pass.

Your RyRy comment there seems to say even non-Hamilton fans are criticising you, so by default you're saying you're overly protective of Hamilton. The more you type the more you just add to the fact you're not impartial. Maybe it depends whether you're an F1 fan first or a Hamilton fan. You watch it long enough, you see enough people come and go, usually you're an F1 fan with a favourite driver or team, but they can change. So I'm a fan of the sport, and a Hamilton supporter, but I recognise he fits within the framework of this thing I've been watching since I was ten, and that like every driver before him he has good and bad moments, good and bad races or qualis. If the intenet had been around in the Mansell era I probably would have acted a lot like a lot of popele here, with righteous idignation that anyone would criticise Nige, but I'm older now. Mansell left, I carried on, i saw things more impartially, or atleast let my fanboy instints go nearly two decades back.

I have two young kids so obviously I interact with a lot of other kids and their parents. i see a lot of parents act like people here with Hamilton thinking the sun shines out of their child's backside - it's ridiculous and unhealthy. I don't treat my kids like that so I certainly won't treat a stranger I see every couple of weeks on TV like that.

[What's Burning?]

Curios do you find your kids being criticized for everything they do or say and called weak minded often? Or do you give your young kids the same type of criticism you provide here about Hamilton? Not sure where the analogy is relevant.

[Roth]

Meanwhile back on earth he hit Button and there wasn't a safety car. And he was third. Not a bad result.

... and therein lies the difference between you and me, and I'd take the liberty to say between quite a few of us Lewis fans here on the forum. I appreciate the fact that, for Lewis it wasn't good enough. He went there to win, and because of an unfortunate mechanical issue the best he could do was a third step on the podium. Had he blown it qualifying he would have been a lot more accepting of the result.

I basically agree, apart from the 'you and us' bit. Again, you're getting all George W. I asked if anyone knew specifically if any post race comments would shed light on his mood. If he was still frustrated from quali, it's similar to Monaco then, where he needs to stop lingering on unfortunate circumstances and let them go, or not let them effect him so much. Third was good though. It was a good drive, just not a great one.

Most of time i think you're ok then you go and say something stupid like this.

You lack the passion to be a Hamilton fan. Just like I have too much logic to be a Tifosi. Thats okay, it's just the way of life. Accept that you're never going to see what we admire in the guy and you won't feel the need, the obligation to be so adversarial to the man. You're not the only one, we've had lots of them come and go. To a one, all of their arguments fall by the wayside and they leave tail between their legs. Because you know what? Even with his not being able to manage tires, not being consistent, not being able to save fuel, not being able to understand what all the buttons do, not being able to play psychological chess, not able to focus, not able to commit to the sport, and being weak of mind. He still rises, he still wins, and all your nitpicking will be for naught, because all we will remember is Lewis Hamilton, 2014 and two time WDC.

BTW... Button himself admitted he drove into Lewis.

Now I know you're not twelve, I've seen the evidence, but seriously do you have these Tom Hanks in Big moments often? This is like something out of the midday movie.

Finally, if Perez had made a move on Hamilton, like Hamilton did on Button, with the same result, we know what you'd all be saying.

[Cyril Sneer Racing]

I think Hamilton is a great driver and seems like a great guy. His fans don't do him justice, in my opinion.

And how many idiotic moves is that for Massa this season? Put him back in a slower car, please.

Edit: Not a very fair comparison WB, kids are not professional race drivers, and this is likely not being read by Hamilton.

[racechick]

Actually, I commented on Hammers criticism, I didn't just let it pass. I call things as I see them.

RyRy wasn't criticising me, he was saying you were over critical of Hamilton.

What blame am I supposed to have shifted from Hamilton? What is he guilty of?

I'm an F1 fan and a Hamilton fan. I was an F1 fan before Hamilton entered the sport and I'll still be one when he leaves it. I have a current favourite, I've had favourites before and I'll have favourites again....there a couple in the pipeline already

I'm a teacher, I see a lot of kids and parents, I can't see the relevance of your comment. This is about how you support your favourite driver not bring up your kids.

Edit: that was in response to Roths last post, there have been a couple in between.

[Roth]

Curios do you find your kids being criticized for everything they do or say and called weak minded often? Or do you give your young kids the same type of criticism you provide here about Hamilton? Not sure where the analogy is relevant.

Stupid comment number 2. Don't be flippant about my kids. I was trying to explain myself in a nice way. This is petty.

The analogy is relevant. I'm saying people can get too emotionally invested in something which blinds them to faults. It's possible to both like something and be aware of faults and silly behaviour.

[What's Burning?]

Meanwhile back on earth he hit Button and there wasn't a safety car. And he was third. Not a bad result.

... and therein lies the difference between you and me, and I'd take the liberty to say between quite a few of us Lewis fans here on the forum. I appreciate the fact that, for Lewis it wasn't good enough. He went there to win, and because of an unfortunate mechanical issue the best he could do was a third step on the podium. Had he blown it qualifying he would have been a lot more accepting of the result.

I basically agree, apart from the 'you and us' bit. Again, you're getting all George W. I asked if anyone knew specifically if any post race comments would shed light on his mood. If he was still frustrated from quali, it's similar to Monaco then, where he needs to stop lingering on unfortunate circumstances and let them go, or not let them effect him so much. Third was good though. It was a good drive, just not a great one.

Most of time i think you're ok then you go and say something stupid like this.

You lack the passion to be a Hamilton fan. Just like I have too much logic to be a Tifosi. Thats okay, it's just the way of life. Accept that you're never going to see what we admire in the guy and you won't feel the need, the obligation to be so adversarial to the man. You're not the only one, we've had lots of them come and go. To a one, all of their arguments fall by the wayside and they leave tail between their legs. Because you know what? Even with his not being able to manage tires, not being consistent, not being able to save fuel, not being able to understand what all the buttons do, not being able to play psychological chess, not able to focus, not able to commit to the sport, and being weak of mind. He still rises, he still wins, and all your nitpicking will be for naught, because all we will remember is Lewis Hamilton, 2014 and two time WDC.

BTW... Button himself admitted he drove into Lewis.

Now I know you're not twelve, I've seen the evidence, but seriously do you have these Tom Hanks in Big moments often? This is like something out of the midday movie.

Finally, if Perez had made a move on Hamilton, like Hamilton did on Button, with the same result, we know what you'd all be saying.

I'm not going going to keep playing with you if you can't keep it from getting personal Roth. Don't do that.

[What's Burning?]

Curios do you find your kids being criticized for everything they do or say and called weak minded often? Or do you give your young kids the same type of criticism you provide here about Hamilton? Not sure where the analogy is relevant.

Stupid comment number 2. Don't be flippant about my kids. I was trying to explain myself in a nice way. This is petty.

The analogy is relevant. I'm saying people can get too emotionally invested in something which blinds them to faults. It's possible to both like something and be aware of faults and silly behaviour.

That's a no, no. If you're going to call me stupid at least bother to answer the question honestly, but perhaps you're afraid to look in the mirror.

[Roth]

You lack the passion to be a Hamilton fan. Just like I have too much logic to be a Tifosi. Thats okay, it's just the way of life. Accept that you're never going to see what we admire in the guy and you won't feel the need, the obligation to be so adversarial to the man. You're not the only one, we've had lots of them come and go. To a one, all of their arguments fall by the wayside and they leave tail between their legs. Because you know what? Even with his not being able to manage tires, not being consistent, not being able to save fuel, not being able to understand what all the buttons do, not being able to play psychological chess, not able to focus, not able to commit to the sport, and being weak of mind. He still rises, he still wins, and all your nitpicking will be for naught, because all we will remember is Lewis Hamilton, 2014 and two time WDC.

All right, I'll give it the response it really doesn't deserve.

First two sentences. You're pigeon holing a fan's temprament, so just because you think a Hamilton fan must be passionate, I can't be a Hamilton fan. Does a fan have to be passionate because Hamilton is passionate? Because if we're running with this, then you're going to hit a point where passion can lead a man to do certain things and act in a certain way, which has certain results. Like charging through the field in a fast car, and desire overcoming logic for a few brief moments. It's stupid. I could say, you're not English and I am, so you're not a Hamilton fan and it would be equally stupid. Anyone in the world can be a Hamilton fan, and they don't need to pass a test.

You don't get to lay down the rules of fandom. It's presumptive and arrogant.

Next two. It's not a club where you're all the same. This isn't the Body Snatchers. I honestly don't think it's healthy. If I was the only person on the internet with the idea that he was a bit ragged you'd have a point that I was plain wrong. But I'm not. There's others on here, and across different forums, and they aren't haters. My point wasn't even that contraversial or critical, it was just an observation that on a few occasions he got a bit hasty. If I came and spewed venom on the man, yep, lay it on me, but not for this.

People don't leave with their tails between their legs. It's not a battle, not right or wrong. I imagine they're just fed up of being attacked for not being one of the crowd and go elsewhere. Don't pretend you're that important or mighty.

Then you list all the things Hamilton gets criticised for, which for me is the crux of the bad attitude. It supposes criticism befits all haters and that all haters are the same. It's shows lack of respect, because whilst you say I'm entitled to that opinion, that opinion isn't really tolerated. It's like dealing with zealots who can appear normal but really are pushing some uncomprimising agenda.

Being a fan, for me, doesn't mean I put my smiley face on. It means I like the guy but he's a small part of my life. I write a couple of sentances on my opinion, usually positive but with a bit of honesty then spend the next three days batting away this forum.

[Roth]

Curios do you find your kids being criticized for everything they do or say and called weak minded often? Or do you give your young kids the same type of criticism you provide here about Hamilton? Not sure where the analogy is relevant.

Stupid comment number 2. Don't be flippant about my kids. I was trying to explain myself in a nice way. This is petty.

The analogy is relevant. I'm saying people can get too emotionally invested in something which blinds them to faults. It's possible to both like something and be aware of faults and silly behaviour.

That's a no, no. If you're going to call me stupid at least bother to answer the question honestly, but perhaps you're afraid to look in the mirror.

So you want me to answer that particular question on here? About my kids? Are you serious? They can't drive for one.

[Roth]

Actually, I commented on Hammers criticism, I didn't just let it pass. I call things as I see them.

RyRy wasn't criticising me, he was saying you were over critical of Hamilton.

What blame am I supposed to have shifted from Hamilton? What is he guilty of?

I'm an F1 fan and a Hamilton fan. I was an F1 fan before Hamilton entered the sport and I'll still be one when he leaves it. I have a current favourite, I've had favourites before and I'll have favourites again....there a couple in the pipeline already

I'm a teacher, I see a lot of kids and parents, I can't see the relevance of your comment. This is about how you support your favourite driver not bring up your kids.

Edit: that was in response to Roths last post, there have been a couple in between.

Just because RyRy said I was overly critical doesn't mean anything. It's the same as if you criticise me. It's just another person's opinion. It holds the same weight as yours, but i don't lump you into any kind of group. You don't consider me a Hamilton fan because I knock him. So there's fanboys, people who don't necessarily see anything wrong in how he drove at the weekend, and non Hamilton people. Let's ignore all the nice things I've ever said about him, then label me a non follower. You see how i could get confused by you and others telling me where i stand in the fan stakes. Like i said to WB, you don't get to decide.

"What blame am I supposed to have shifted from Hamilton? What is he guilty of?"

This is a perfect example. It's that complete unwillingness to see anything wrong in any performance other than when it's impossible to deny. It's always, Nico this, stewards that, luck the other.

I reiterated my point about the parents in a WB reply. My wife's a teacher also, and she's forever complaining about parents who think their kid's a perfect genius, telling her how to do her job, when apparently they're slightly above average intelligence with an attitude problem. Maybe you're just lucky, I don't know.

[What's Burning?]

You make a lot of assumptions about me, you call me stupid and arrogant and I'm supposed to take you seriously? I spoke for myself and speak for myself, and have remained respectful of the dialogue. You can spend all the time you want micro-criticizing the guy for making a sloppy overtakes but your veneer is wearing thin. The type of bizarre generalization about Lewis fans being like parents of spoiled kids is irrelevant and just like the criticism you so readily dish out about no one else on the grid is laughable.

The next time you personally attack anyone else here won't be as pleasant. Enjoy the rest of the season, fan of the sport... right.

[RyRy]

*hides*

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