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[Roth]

Careful, you'll take someone's eye out with all that rhetoric. There's a difference between saying he's weak and has a weakness. There's something going on inside his head since Monaco that has altered his approach. And it's not for the better.

[CookinFlat6]

Yes attempted sandbagging with q3 runs

And this makes a big difference how? Should he panick and employ a shrink to find out why his whole season has gone tits up after these 3 races?

[Ferrari man 009]

I remember Button having a string of bad races in 2012, he wasn't called psychologically weak. I remember Rosberg getting not qualifying on the front row a few times this year in the best car - he wasn't called mentally this or that

Thing is Lewis has had 3 races without winning, 1 was a mistake by an under pressure Nico, one was a dnf. And Alewis finished 2nd in the other. Those that say this is weak are hoping he will actually act in a weak manner and blow this out of proportion and let it cascade to something really negative

Lewis is not psychologically weak, if he was he wouldn't have driven an exceptional race and gone from 9th to 2nd. He'd have either finished further down the points (5th/6th) or crashed on the first lap.

[What's Burning?]

I remember Button having a string of bad races in 2012, he wasn't called psychologically weak. I remember Rosberg getting not qualifying on the front row a few times this year in the best car - he wasn't called mentally this or that

Thing is Lewis has had 3 races without winning, 1 was a mistake by an under pressure Nico, one was a dnf. And Alewis finished 2nd in the other. Those that say this is weak are hoping he will actually act in a weak manner and blow this out of proportion and let it cascade to something really negative

Lewis is not psychologically weak, if he was he wouldn't have driven an exceptional race and gone from 9th to 2nd. He'd have either finished further down the points (5th/6th) or crashed on the first lap.

He's weaker than Rosberg since Rosberg won the race where he started off on the back foot due to a poor Q showing and a poor launch.

[Roth]

Yes attempted sandbagging with q3 runs

And this makes a big difference how? Should he panick and employ a shrink to find out why his whole season has gone tits up after these 3 races?

The sandbagging hasn't worked, and lots of points lost is the difference. He should stop worrying about Nico and just get on with it. Which is kind of my point.

[Roth]

Toto Wolff's take on Austria.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... 1399253082

This should probably be in the rivals thread but goes along with this discussion here.

[What's Burning?]

Yes attempted sandbagging with q3 runs

And this makes a big difference how? Should he panick and employ a shrink to find out why his whole season has gone tits up after these 3 races?

The sandbagging hasn't worked, and lots of points lost is the difference. He should stop worrying about Nico and just get on with it. Which is kind of my point.

The point would have some validity if he was deficient in some way and it was a diminishing return tactic. A DNF in Canada while he was leading, and a botched Q attempt. You know, people make mistakes sometimes in qualifying. That's what Rosberg would have us believe.

[Roth]

The point would have some validity if he was deficient in some way and it was a diminishing return tactic.

I don't follow.

[What's Burning?]

The point would have some validity if he was deficient in some way and it was a diminishing return tactic.

I don't follow.

I mean if he'd been doing this for five or six attemps and it had backfired on him all those times. We're looking at two muckups, one where it was a mistake clearly on his part, and one where he didn't even get a chance to prove that not getting a pole didn't even matter as passing wasn't an issue in Canada, a circuit Lewis owns. Monaco he had no control over so its 1 out of three attempts. Hardly something I'd base such a strong philosophical argument on. Not saying you're wrong, not saying there isn't some truth to it, it's just IMO not enough of a "sampling" to make a supposition on as you are doing.

[CookinFlat6]

It feels now that the extra speed Hamilton has is no longer an advantage because he finds a way of negating it. I'm starting to feel we've seen this before in Hamilton, this psychological weakness we pretend is misfortune.

Careful, you'll take someone's eye out with all that rhetoric. There's a difference between saying he's weak and has a weakness. There's something going on inside his head since Monaco that has altered his approach. And it's not for the better.

I am still unsure about the foundations underpinning this claim of weakness or how that becomes 'he is not weak but has a weakness'
We pretend this psychological weakness is misfortune? Would be good if even 1 of the 'we' could provide specific examples of this pattern

And the weakness is a lack of psychological strength implied in 'there's something going on in his head (he has no control over)'

This is a view that has popularity in certain quarters, but let's take a closer look
This cheap and easy to digest prognosis is usually based on
1) a few crashes into Massa in 2011 who was earning his paycheck Ferrari style, donating gearboxes and front wings towards Alonso's challenge
2) 'throwing away the 2007 WDC by his team leaving him out on bald tyres in China PLUS the gearbox glitch in Brazil
3) lying to stewards only after being briefed by his team to do so after originally telling the truth
4) twitter gate - which actually turns out to have been a careful and deliberate act in the process of leaving Mac for Merc

These facts are enough to decide that Lewis (not Kimi, not Alonso, no one else on the grid not even Maldo) alone is psychologically weak, sorry, has a psychological weakness

Kimi has been done for drunk driving, 'upsetting' waitresses in strip bars, quitting F1 in despair, trying rally and nascar, self centered attitude towards media and team, spinning twice at same place on a race weekend costing big points etc etc etc
But the same psycho analysts who have a PhD in Lewis' mind space never ever even claim Kimi is weak mentally - like alcoholic, moody, unfocussed has been stars in other sports

And the most spectacular facts are always ignored by the Lewis analysts who cling to him not winning the WDC in his rookie season as proof of his mental fragility
Won every single series
As a rookie, displayed a stronger psychological mindset to his 2x reigning WDC team leader who fled the scene
Won WDC in second year
Lewis was perfect in 2012 despite wasting the year at McLaren,
Beat Rosberg last year despite the tribulations of a massive upheaval
Proven in bad and good cars
Delivered after a dramatic 2008 season
And...... The best recovery first lap- compared to Nicos recovery drive earlier in the season

But facts dont bother some - Lewis is mentally weak

Cos brundle said so innit

[1Lemon]

Everyone going needs to wear pink BTW http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/jenson-button/pink-shirts-for-silverstone/

[Roth]

It feels now that the extra speed Hamilton has is no longer an advantage because he finds a way of negating it. I'm starting to feel we've seen this before in Hamilton, this psychological weakness we pretend is misfortune.

Careful, you'll take someone's eye out with all that rhetoric. There's a difference between saying he's weak and has a weakness. There's something going on inside his head since Monaco that has altered his approach. And it's not for the better.

I am still unsure about the foundations underpinning this claim of weakness or how that becomes 'he is not weak but has a weakness'
We pretend this psychological weakness is misfortune? Would be good if even 1 of the 'we' could provide specific examples of this pattern

And the weakness is a lack of psychological strength implied in 'there's something going on in his head (he has no control over)'

This is a view that has popularity in certain quarters, but let's take a closer look
This cheap and easy to digest prognosis is usually based on
1) a few crashes into Massa in 2011 who was earning his paycheck Ferrari style, donating gearboxes and front wings towards Alonso's challenge
2) 'throwing away the 2007 WDC by his team leaving him out on bald tyres in China PLUS the gearbox glitch in Brazil
3) lying to stewards only after being briefed by his team to do so after originally telling the truth
4) twitter gate - which actually turns out to have been a careful and deliberate act in the process of leaving Mac for Merc

This a lovely potted history of Hamilton's normality but I've only been talking about the last few races. Before that he has had moments of brain fade, which he's admitted to. Unless you accept he's had his moments you can't have a fair view of the man.

These facts are enough to decide that Lewis (not Kimi, not Alonso, no one else on the grid not even Maldo) alone is psychologically weak, sorry, has a psychological weakness

Kimi has been done for drunk driving, 'upsetting' waitresses in strip bars, quitting F1 in despair, trying rally and nascar, self centered attitude towards media and team, spinning twice at same place on a race weekend costing big points etc etc etc
But the same psycho analysts who have a PhD in Lewis' mind space never ever even claim Kimi is weak mentally - like alcoholic, moody, unfocussed has been stars in other sports

I never mentioned anybody else on the grid. Did I say Lewis is a nutter and everybody else is a perfectly balanced individual? Because it's like you're replying to ghost posts. Don't rake me over the coals for everbody elses sins.

And the most spectacular facts are always ignored by the Lewis analysts who cling to him not winning the WDC in his rookie season as proof of his mental fragility
Won every single series
As a rookie, displayed a stronger psychological mindset to his 2x reigning WDC team leader who fled the scene
Won WDC in second year
Lewis was perfect in 2012 despite wasting the year at McLaren,
Beat Rosberg last year despite the tribulations of a massive upheaval
Proven in bad and good cars
Delivered after a dramatic 2008 season
And...... The best recovery first lap- compared to Nicos recovery drive earlier in the season

But facts dont bother some - Lewis is mentally weak

Cos brundle said so innit

Yes, what's your point though? I agree with it all, even though it has the selective whiff of pro-Hamilton spin. I'm not out to knock him, but question why he's let and is letting these errors slip into his game again.

I'm trying to discuss specific points that anyone can put in an arguement against. I'm trying to get to the crux of it. What I'm getting is his sterling life story, and excuses like sometimes drivers just mess up quali. It's cause and effect, but people are arguing the effect like it's the cause.

[What's Burning?]

Everyone going needs to wear pink BTW http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/jenson-button/pink-shirts-for-silverstone/

McLaren is going to make a fortune on those. WTF a portion of the proceeds... IT SHOULD BE ALL OF THE PROFIT YOU GREEDY CORPORATE M0THERFU¢KERS!

[1Lemon]

Everyone going needs to wear pink BTW http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/jenson-button/pink-shirts-for-silverstone/

McLaren is going to make a fortune on those. WTF a portion of the proceeds... IT SHOULD BE ALL OF THE PROFIT YOU GREEDY CORPORATE M0THERFU¢KERS!

It may just be they break even on them. Unless it said a portion of the profits, in which case I hate when companies do that.

[racechick]

Roth, he's made one error. That's why people are taking issue with what you say. You say "he's letting these errors slip into his game again." Non of them are perfect, some less perfect than others and yet the expectation is always that Hamilton has to be perfect. And when he makes an error suddenly he's psychologically weak or error prone. To pick it out suggests that you consider him more error prone than others. And yet he's made only one error in almost half a season. Compare that to other world champions on the grid. (I know. Hamilton is In a fast car, but I'm talking about comparative performance against a team mate)
Kimi, blown away.
Jenson, not looking good against a rookie
Vettel, blown away.
And yet Hamilton is the one singled out for ' letting errors slip into his game ' or being psychologically weak.
Error at Austria or no error at Austria he would be away down the street without the DNF's.