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[Cyril Sneer Racing]

QUOTE: "It is for that reason that current Ferrari man Fernando Alonso is not only the best driver to have graced the F1 circuit in the past decade, he is one of the greatest of all-time."

who wrote this article? The head of the Fernando Alonso fan club?

How does he arrive at that bold statement then? It clearly can't be on championship wins ,because Vettel has more.

Could it be on beating a team mate in equal machinery? Nope. Because as a double world champion he was beaten by his rookie team mate...who still happens to be on the grid today, and is now vastly more experienced.

Well in the last ten years there has been no one on the grid who is comparable who has driven in an uncompetitive car. You mean Hamilton? They tied and Hamilton hasn't had any standout seasons since his first two (and Alonso has never had a similar performance from teammates, they have been well back of him). Alonso has driven remarkably well in a relatively slow car, he is both consistent and drives amazingly much more frequently than any other driver on the grid.

Vettel beat Alonso by a couple of points in a car 3-4 seconds faster than all the rest (and a couple seconds faster than his teammate's). Vettel is irrelevant in any discussion of the best driver on the grid apart from discarding his points. Over the past several years I cannot think of anyone other than Alonso who has consistently impressed, and of course gotten to the front in a slower car.

While Hamilton may also be top driver, where both have had some hard luck in getting those stats, we have to make subjective decisions in Formula 1. Why? Because it is subjective racing. By its very nature Formula 1 is inconsistent and subjective. You race against others with different cars and the objective stats for 'who is the best?' become quite meaningless when certain cars are several seconds faster. So far this season Hamilton is in a near Vettel-car and Alonso is in a car which is perhaps 4th or even 5th in the teams. His drives have impressed, as they have the last four years.

While Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg, Hulkenberg, and Raikkonen are the most skilled/experienced drivers on the grid right now we would need at least a hundred drives in equivalent cars to make objective stats. Until that happens F1 will remain subjective.

[racechick]

QUOTE: "It is for that reason that current Ferrari man Fernando Alonso is not only the best driver to have graced the F1 circuit in the past decade, he is one of the greatest of all-time."

who wrote this article? The head of the Fernando Alonso fan club?

How does he arrive at that bold statement then? It clearly can't be on championship wins ,because Vettel has more.

Could it be on beating a team mate in equal machinery? Nope. Because as a double world champion he was beaten by his rookie team mate...who still happens to be on the grid today, and is now vastly more experienced.

Well in the last ten years there has been no one on the grid who is comparable who has driven in an uncompetitive car. You mean Hamilton? They tied and Hamilton hasn't had any standout seasons since his first two (and Alonso has never had a similar performance from teammates, they have been well back of him). Alonso has driven remarkably well in a relatively slow car, he is both consistent and drives amazingly much more frequently than any other driver on the grid.

Vettel beat Alonso by a couple of points in a car 3-4 seconds faster than all the rest (and a couple seconds faster than his teammate's). Vettel is irrelevant in any discussion of the best driver on the grid apart from discarding his points. Over the past several years I cannot think of anyone other than Alonso who has consistently impressed, and of course gotten to the front in a slower car.

While Hamilton may also be top driver, where both have had some hard luck in getting those stats, we have to make subjective decisions in Formula 1. Why? Because it is subjective racing. By its very nature Formula 1 is inconsistent and subjective. You race against others with different cars and the objective stats for 'who is the best?' become quite meaningless when certain cars are several seconds faster. So far this season Hamilton is in a near Vettel-car and Alonso is in a car which is perhaps 4th or even 5th in the teams. His drives have impressed, as they have the last four years.

While Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg, Hulkenberg, and Raikkonen are the most skilled/experienced drivers on the grid right now we would need at least a hundred drives in equivalent cars to make objective stats. Until that happens F1 will remain subjective.

Of course subjectivity is involved, thats how we come to chose our favourites, but one doesn't expect it from journalists, one expects a fair consideration of the facts.

You say Alonso drew with his rookie team mate, but in the championship standings for that year his team mate is placed above him.

You say Alonso has been ahead of his teammates since Hamilton, maybe that's because the team mates aren't as good as Hamilton. Maybe it's because they were made to pull over for him.

Hamilton has also beaten his team mates every year except 2011, and that despite having his team mate favoured for three years.

I agree with you that Vettel cannot be considered alongside Alonso, but Hamilton can. He has also impressed consistently and has performed in lesser cars.

You see what we did there? We both put forward facts to support our view of things but we make a subjective choice about our favourite. But we aren't journalists. To write an article saying Alonso is the greatest driver on the grid and make no reference to Hamilton who has raced in the same equipment at the same time is laughable.

Incidentally. I rate Alonso very highly, right up there with Hamilton.

[Cyril Sneer Racing]

To be clear, I don't favour Alonso. I like both Alonso and Hamilton (how could you not?). I tend to simply want to see a good race, have everyone at their top performance and see the head to head action. For instance, the Rosberg and Hamilton back and forth a couple races ago I didn't cheer for either one, just prefer to see skillful driving and the responses of each driver.

I was just trying to clarify how the article is not so out there as 'to be laughable'. Personally, I think Alonso and Hamilton are the best drivers. Alonso a little more consistent I think and Hamilton perhaps with those spikes of higher skill. And I suspect that if they were in equal cars they would have plenty of seasons similar to the early one.

They both have been racing during a time of political b_____. Let's hope that can be rectified. And just maybe if Mercedes stays consistent and if the other teams can close the gap a little we will see a very good representation of the best drivers over the course of the season. And it'd be nice if Rosberg can challenge Hamilton, just two or three more races like Bahrain and it should be clear that Hamilton is truly skilled and consistent. Tight races would prevent the whole blame the car mentality, at least within Mercedes. And of course, make for a much more exciting season.

Alonso, however, can't be counted out til his car is at least close.

[Jabberwocky]

I would like to see Alonso and Lewis is the same team again, I feel they both have unfinished business after last time.

[racechick]

I agree Jabs.

Cyril, we agree that racing is the best thing. It's why I first loved f1. But I'm afraid I do bring bias because I prefer Hamilton. ( not because some media writer tells me to, but because he makes me tingle when he makes his car do audacious things, he has something special)
Yes, Hamilton and Alonso are the best drivers. Nip and tuck. The skills I prefer, are the ones Hamilton has , which is why he's my favourite. He can pull it out against the odds.

Again we agree that they have been racing in a time that does not suit racers skills. A time when gimmicks replace skill to liven up the show. Hopefully now we can see some skills back in operation as the cars are more skittish.
Lewis does have a car advantage this year...at last!! But Alonso is adept at talking himself up and the car down.

I still think the article is laughable saying Alonso is the best driver of the decade. He isn't. Total disrespect to Hamilton! But boy would I love to see them again in equal machinery! I remember Silverstone on its feet as these two went head to head for 15 th place, both in crap cars. Racing fans know who the best are regardless off the car.

[Jabberwocky]

How can he be the driver of the decade? This decade has had 3 championships. All won by one driver. So that one driver must be the best right?!?

Sent using NCC-1701

[racechick]

Allegedly

[spankyham]

Gushing and fantasizing in editorials about Fernando. Well, I guess that's ok in his "fan thread".
He's proven to be a fairly handy pilot.




Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Roth]

Nobody talks about his second stint at Renault, but that's when he cemented the idea of out performing his equipment. It felt like a huge step backwards (his own making ofcourse, no sympathy here) it could have killed his career, but the Ferrari move then proved his worth more than the two titles. This is what we talk about greatness for, and lets not forsake that for one year of acting like a dipsh!t at McLaren.

[Cyril Sneer Racing]

Fair enough, racechick. Hamilton does have that on the edge sort of skill, and I think these cars allow for a return of high skill, keeping the wheels lined up while they try to spin out. I might have to try and find some of those old races.

[racechick]

Gushing and fantasizing in editorials about Fernando. Well, I guess that's ok in his "fan thread".
He's proven to be a fairly handy pilot.




Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

He is indeed a handy pilot. I've said so on many occasions. But one doesn't have to agree with every emotive piece of fantasy written about him that would best grace the fiction shelves of the library, just because it's posted in his support thread. The article disrespects his competitors and thereby disrespects the man himself. He's better than that. He doesn't need journalists to wax lyrical without posting any facts to support their standpoint. emotive gushing about drivers can be left to us, the fans.
Now here's a superb piece of journalism byMark Hughes, a man who observes trackside, listens and then applies great technical knowledge to support his views. The following quote is taken from a piece he wrote last year analysing what gives Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton their edge. I've posted it before but we may have new members now who haven't seen it. ( I have the Hamilton and Vettel ones if anyone is interested, sorry cant give the links because it was a subscription only piece in Autosport.)

here's what he has to say about Alonso.........


"Fernando Alonso - Making Understeer Interesting

Fernando is medium-hard on the brakes and with a bit of overlap between braking and cornering. Then as he’s coming fully off the brakes he applies a lot of lock very quickly, initially partly stalling the front tyre to give a sort of false understeer. Occasionally the front will bite better than he anticipates and with so much lock on that can induce the rear into suddenly stepping out – and it’s then you see him applying punches of oversteer to which he’s very attuned, as if he’s half-expecting it. More usually the understeer stays through most of the corner and the balance is maintained with more or less throttle.

It’s a less extreme version of the technique that was very evident in the rearward-heavy Renaults of 2003-’06. But it wasn’t invented for those cars, they simply allowed him to amplify it to good effect. “I’ve always driven like that – ever since karts,” he said back in 2003.

It’s a technique that allows him to take in enormous momentum, making the car very alive but without the hazard of too much oversteer. It lends itself to great repeatability, but puts a slightly low ceiling on ultimate peak grip. But it’s consistent, makes the car malleable in that crucial, early part of the corner and it keeps strain off the delicate rear tyres. It’s a great fighting technique, working over a wide variety of lines and grip levels as he uses the throttle to fine- hone the car’s placement.

It’s a bullying technique, dominating the car rather than going with its flow in the way, for example, Kimi Raikkonen would. It’s quite similar, in fact, to how Felipe Massa drives but is less aggressive on the brakes, slightly earlier and therefore more consistent, with fewer line-altering lock-ups. It was a technique that allowed Alonso to minimise the penalty of the trait of 2010 and ’11 Ferraris not bringing their front tyres up to temperature quickly enough.

Because he doesn’t actually need the ultimate front grip; so long as he gets some sort of turn-in he’s manipulating the angle with brakes and throttle, almost rally-style. It’s a long way removed from the minimal-input neutrality Michael Schumacher used to stretch the Ferrari elastic in the tyre-war days, but in the Pirelli era Alonso’s more physical technique is probably more effective. Michael was still trying to drive his way in the control-tyre era, using steering lock only grudgingly on his Mercedes, his brain hard-wired to feel that steering lock equalled momentum loss. But when the tyre cannot support the momentum, the car refuses to adopt a stance of sliding neutrality after just the slightest hint of steering lock. Thus the Alonso method is much more adaptable.

With the higher grip of the 2013 Pirellis it’s going to be interesting to see if that still applies. If it does not, expect Alonso to adapt, just as he did when going from Michelins to Bridgestones in 2007 – though it took him a few races."


There is an article that leaves one with nothing but respect for the skills of both the journalist and Alonso.

[sagi58]

, Hugh Podmore wrote:">What does Fernando Alonso need to do to get a break?

...The Chinese Grand Prix 2014 was a typical Fernando Alonso race. Qualifying near enough the front to make sure the pole sitters are within reach; making a characteristically clean start; being assailed by someone or something (in this case it was a hapless Felipe Massa caught in a closing wedge); driving one’s guts out; pitting early to maximise the bonus of the undercut; driving one’s guts out; pitting early again to maximise the undercut once again; driving one’s guts out; surviving a late charge from a young gun on fresher tyres and in invariably superior machinery; trouncing his team mate, but watching on the podium as other drivers, in invariably superior machinery, take the glory...

....Statistics will only ever tell half the story. Those of us who have witnessed Fernando Alonso driving, by the track and on the television, will always be able to tell the story. The story that he was superhuman in a racing car; that he performed beyond the limits of his machinery; that he almost never had the best car and yet we always mention his name.

[racechick]

Hugh Podmore

[What's Burning?]

Huge Crapmore.

[sagi58]

Either of you two want to let me in on the joke?