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[1Lemon]

even Buttons touching if somewhat lame version of doughnuts.

I don't think you can criticise Button's doughnuts when Hamilton did his half spin things, and never seemed to do a full circle. He needs more practice.

[CookinFlat6]

aw common lems, with Lewis we saw smoke and rubber on the tarmac, with Button it was all smooth and, well all buttonlike

[racechick]

On the BBC breakfast show Lewis gave an interview. He said the psychological battle over the season with Rosberg was intense. He said he would be one side of the table with his engineers and Nico on the other side with his. And he said they'd copy what we did, and vice versa, so there wasn't a way to get an advantage.

He said it reached a peak at Spa when Nico came away with 15 points and he got none. He said after that we changed what we did...and it worked..I won.
Which does suggest that's the point he went for a race set up rather than quali ;not sure how he hoodwinked Nico and his engineers.

If you want to hear the interview it's in this link, it's not a long one.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30191344

[CookinFlat6]

On the BBC breakfast show Lewis gave an interview. He said the psychological battle over the season with Rosberg was intense. He said he would be one side of the table with his engineers and Nico on the other side with his. And he said they'd copy what we did, and vice versa, so there wasn't a way to get an advantage.

He said it reached a peak at Spa when Nico came away with 15 points and he got none. He said after that we changed what we did...and it worked..I won.
Which does suggest that's the point he went for a race set up rather than quali ;not sure how he hoodwinked Nico and his engineers.

me,me, me, please Miss, I know this one

Please see the 'did Lewis trick Nico over Quali' poll for full details - heres a brief

After the radio ban, no instructions are allowed to driver over radio about others setup - only in the pit
So the only privacy Lewis had from Nico copying his setup was at the final setup before parc ferme
This is therefore either just before Q3, or more commonly just before the last Q3 run
That means once its setup and Lewis leaves the pit - preferably last - There is no more chance for Nico to look at lewis data and copy setup before the race - Remeber any other time in practice or Q1, Nico, once back in the pit, can simply check what Lewis had done most recently and copy it
So Lewis would gather long run data and quali run data and then all through the sessions leading up to Q3 he would setup for optimally quali run, Nico would do the same gravitating towards which way Lewis was converging with his settings - So we would see Lewis go fastest first as he gets setup right much much quicker than Nico, with Nico trying stuff then settling for Lewis'
And then at the last moment maybe even as Nico was heading out first, all gung ho, the crafty Lewis would change to his optimal long run setup - obviously this would be planned with his side to be doable in the time
The result would be Nico going out on a quali optimised setup and going all out encouraged by his increasing 'quali prowess' and eager to get one up on Lewis
And Lewis would go out with a setup that would cause him to be say half a sec slower on setup, and he would rag his disposable tyres and invariably make the errors we expect from setup, nothing major, just little surprises
Then in the race we would see Nico lock his brakes regularly early - a sign of a setup not optimised for full tanks etc, and he increasingly has tyre issues, and is normally worse in the first half - on a heavy fuel load

I am 100% right about this - FOR ANY DOUBTERS WHO WANNA COME ALONG with the usual 'but but' and 'dont speculate' or 'you can know that just by tv' etc etc, then kindly eff off so RC can digest this

[What's Burning?]

Some leverage in negotiating a contract going forward for Lewis I think.

[racechick]

Yes,that all makes sense, it does indeed Cookie! I'd kindov taken on that he'd changed his modus operandi, but not quite how he'd done it. How very clever of him!! Do you not think Nico and his engineers would have got wise? But would the very late change by Lewis mean that even if they knew what he was doing they wouldn't be able to do it themselves because it was too late. Oh that rule change on coaching drivers really played into Lewis' game plan!

As WB just said, is there any chance Lewis can ask for less data sharing under his new contract? Toto has always said data must be shared to move Merc forward the maximum it can, and I understand that. But might a compromise be found?

[stonemonkey]

Yes,that all makes sense, it does indeed Cookie! I'd kindov taken on that he'd changed his modus operandi, but not quite how he'd done it. How very clever of him!! Do you not think Nico and his engineers would have got wise? But would the very late change by Lewis mean that even if they knew what he was doing they wouldn't be able to do it themselves because it was too late. Oh that rule change on coaching drivers really played into Lewis' game plan!

As WB just said, is there any chance Lewis can ask for less data sharing under his new contract? Toto has always said data must be shared to move Merc forward the maximum it can, and I understand that. But might a compromise be found?

If that is something merc would consider it could come down to how competitive other teams are, if they're fighting for the constructors then there's no way they wouldn't have data sharing.

[racechick]

I think they'd take some persuading. Maybe like you say in certain circumstances.

[CookinFlat6]

Yes,that all makes sense, it does indeed Cookie! I'd kindov taken on that he'd changed his modus operandi, but not quite how he'd done it. How very clever of him!! Do you not think Nico and his engineers would have got wise? But would the very late change by Lewis mean that even if they knew what he was doing they wouldn't be able to do it themselves because it was too late. Oh that rule change on coaching drivers really played into Lewis' game plan!

As WB just said, is there any chance Lewis can ask for less data sharing under his new contract? Toto has always said data must be shared to move Merc forward the maximum it can, and I understand that. But might a compromise be found?

If you watch Totos interviews when he discusses Lewis in the last few race, you get the impression, he 'knows' something and he finaaly couldnt help letting the cat out of the bag when asked why lewis was faster.

For Nico, he needs the car setup to waht he is comfortable with, but is close enough to Lewis in style and testicualrity and ability, but he misses the smarts the street smarts- therace craft- the determination, ultimately the confidence in his ability to recover from instability or any imminent breach of the cars dynamic stability i.e instability thats still going forward as opposed to instability that is over and needs to be recovered or abandoned.

Therefore Nico could set his car up more for the race, but he wouldnt know exactly what was best for him without a lot of time, whereas Lewis would be bang on it quickly and then nico had a reference to fine tune saving him time - which is correlated to 'comfort window' or 'operating window'. So if Lewis gets all the data about long runs but doesnt actually settle on one and the fine tune it, it means Nico has to go on the best long run setup he stumbles across in the time available, sometimes its great sometimes its terrible as we see in races. So they can have data exchange all they want, but lewis hides the long run setup that is at the crossing point of the slope of the optmium vs quickest (for him)
So for example lewis could go for a lower DF setup on a track with lots of corners and a couple of big straights - this setup might not be the optimum physics wise but lewis; skills can make it the quickest as he can handle the imminent instability of the lower DF in the corners whereas Nico cant on paper, UNLESS he saw Lewis' data and then grabbed his testicles saying 'if lewis can do it I can as well even though might crap my pants'

So this is what lewis has been keeping back and is why his final Q3 or both Q3 ru8ns are where he suddenly goes backward or ragged

Remeber the GP race where he removed all the DF to ctach the whole field ? what did he do first - he spun, same analogy as what happens in q3, at the last moment he goes from the cerebral optimum physcial setup to the hail mary setup that Nico wouldnt even dream of doing in his wildest hallucinations - UNLESS HE SEE LEWIS do it first

So Lewis doesnt care anymore about data sharing, just as long as Nico doesnt see him do what, on paper isnt possible before the race - hence lots of times lewis messing around with sectors etc

[CookinFlat6]

It also means that all the quali issues lewis had after Monaco when we said he was experimenting with playing cerebral games with Nico in quali - where some thickos in the media and eslewhere automatically took as a sign of cracking up, that was simply a cerebral driver constructing the best strategy for this era of ERS, tyres and ultimately race setup.

The one question that I cant answer is this - did lewis' efforts and the behaviour of his teammate lead to the radio ban on sharing teammate setup during practice, quali and race, because lets face it, and i am a massive believer in Lewis' determination to overcome obstacles and h8rz that would kill others to make things happen for him by impressing those who recognise talent over disturbing looks etc - Was that radio ban somehow to help Lewis or did he just adapt to it

Because, lets face it, that radio ban relegated Nicos sudden increase in ability by copying Lewis to speed only

But who would favour Lewis by bringing the ban? maybe max mosely suddenly had a fit of remorse for his fascist upbringing and snuck into the FIA and changed the wording on some circulars

Nah

[racechick]

when I read about what Lewis did In that GP2 race in Turkey it reminded me very much of his little offs in practices and quali. Finding limits, testing, checking, planning. He is one clever cookie, eh Cookie and he has them all fooled.

[stonemonkey]

I think they'd take some persuading. Maybe like you say in certain circumstances.

I'd wondered if that was something Toto was inferring when he said the drivers would be let loose once merc had the constructors wrapped up but it wasn't to be.

[CookinFlat6]

:D when I read about what Lewis did In that GP2 race in Turkey it reminded me very much of his little offs in practices and quali. Finding limits, testing, checking, planning. He is one clever cookie, eh Cookie and he has them all fooled.

Ah but Rc, if that was really the case, he wouldnt want anyone to know this for next season, as he wouldnt want Nico to somehow find a way or to excite the usual h8tz who could change the rules to stop the dumb street kid outsmarting the cerebral book worm.

if Lewis was really that smart then we shouldnt be discussing his trick as a possibility, we should be saying 'Nico is so fast over 1 lap, he just has to up his game next season during the race'

[racechick]

:D when I read about what Lewis did In that GP2 race in Turkey it reminded me very much of his little offs in practices and quali. Finding limits, testing, checking, planning. He is one clever cookie, eh Cookie and he has them all fooled.

Ah but Rc, if that was really the case, he wouldnt want anyone to know this for next season, as he wouldnt want Nico to somehow find a way or to excite the usual h8tz who could change the rules to stop the dumb street kid outsmarting the cerebral book worm.

if Lewis was really that smart then we shouldnt be discussing his trick as a possibility, we should be saying 'Nico is so fast over 1 lap, he just has to up his game next season during the race'

But that's probably exactly what most people are saying. Just like there was nothing wrong at Mclaren. Whitmarsh was a nice man, there was nothing wrong at Ferrari. Seb's a legend. It'll take more than a couple of world championships for folk to realise Lewis is pretty smart. A few get it. Will Buxton gets it. Some never will. I don't think that'll be upsetting Lewis too much, not anymore.

[CookinFlat6]

Might actually be better to promote the"psychological weakness in Q3 that cerebral Nico has exploited to come second" gemstone

Interesting how eager Ej and others are to declare that Lewis is not the fastest over 1 lap that they thought - and its suddenly now a disadvantage where before it was a disadvantage against the cerebral 2014 ERS programming drivers like Seb and Nico

I just love this stuff so much, its a massive window of opportunity to profit from the expertz, just wish more would put money down on it or join Betfair and provide some liquidity