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[sagi58]

...Bottas made the call on lap 9 asking about racing his team mate, so he would have been given the opportunity on lap 10...

I'm pretty certain that Williams told them NOT to race each other, at that point.
Did I miss something?

[RyRy]

I'm pretty certain that Williams told them NOT to race each other, at that point.
Did I miss something?

What can't you work out... It explains itself perfectly, I'll bold part for you..

Bottas made the call on lap 9 asking about racing his team mate, so he would have been given the opportunity on lap 10...

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[sagi58]

I'm pretty certain that Williams told them NOT to race each other, at that point.
Did I miss something?

What can't you work out... It explains itself perfectly, I'll bold part for you..

Bottas made the call on lap 9 asking about racing his team mate, so he would have been given the opportunity on lap 10...

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Thanks for making that extra effort, even if it was superfluous!!

However, you might like to see for yourself what Bottas had to say about the team orders to hold station:

Bottas - I could have pulled a gap on Massa

Bottas “disappointed” to be told not to race Massa

'It would have been nice to be able to race' - Valtteri Bottas

And, yes, they were team orders. Interestingly, given by the same man who called Massa "Felipe Baby"!

Smedley explains Williams team orders

So you see, Bottas was not given the opportunity to pass on lap 10, as you suggested, even though he did make the request.

[RyRy]

Thanks for making that extra effort, even if it was superfluous!!

And, yes, they were team orders. Interestingly, given by the same man who called Massa "Felipe Baby"!

Smedley explains Williams team orders

So you see, Bottas was not given the opportunity to pass on lap 10, as you suggested, even though he did make the request.

Are you for real... the lack of either reading or common sense is, extraordinary!

and if they let Bottas through

so he would have been given the opportunity on lap 10

Sure there was a missing If, but the would have still covers it.

That means Bottas needed to be 4 tenths faster than Massa and Hamilton per lap, which is massively unlikely.

Bottas could NOT have pulled a gap, hence why the team told them to not fight for position because he was getting a big tow and DRS and even if he did pull a gap, he needed to get 4tenths per lap, every lap for 10 laps which was out of the question because he and Massa were already going at their stints estimated times,

I never said it wasn't team orders, but ultimately it would have made no difference, instead might have given Hamilton a chance to overtake one of them or even both because he was within 6-8 tenths every lap.

Mercedes had I quote: "lots of tred left" on their first set of tyres because they pitted early because they knew Williams couldn't do the stint length that Mercedes could.

[myownalias]

There's always the third option of Bottas being allowed to pass with Massa backing up the pack to allow the Finn to create a good lead, after all it's a team sport, so why not sacrifice one driver for the sake of the team. But it all became a moot point with Williams being so terrible in the wet and of course the super late call for inters allowing Vettel to snatch a podium!

[sagi58]

Thanks for making that extra effort, even if it was superfluous!!

And, yes, they were team orders. Interestingly, given by the same man who called Massa "Felipe Baby"!

Smedley explains Williams team orders

So you see, Bottas was not given the opportunity to pass on lap 10, as you suggested, even though he did make the request.

Are you for real... the lack of either reading or common sense is, extraordinary!

and if they let Bottas through

so he would have been given the opportunity on lap 10

Sure there was a missing If, but the would have still covers it.

That means Bottas needed to be 4 tenths faster than Massa and Hamilton per lap, which is massively unlikely.

Bottas could NOT have pulled a gap, hence why the team told them to not fight for position because he was getting a big tow and DRS and even if he did pull a gap, he needed to get 4tenths per lap, every lap for 10 laps which was out of the question because he and Massa were already going at their stints estimated times,

I never said it wasn't team orders, but ultimately it would have made no difference, instead might have given Hamilton a chance to overtake one of them or even both because he was within 6-8 tenths every lap.

Mercedes had I quote: "lots of tred left" on their first set of tyres because they pitted early because they knew Williams couldn't do the stint length that Mercedes could.

There you go, you are speculating, just as the rest of us are.
So, yeah, I'm for real, thanks for asking!

[RyRy]

There's always the third option of Bottas being allowed to pass with Massa backing up the pack to allow the Finn to create a good lead, after all it's a team sport, so why not sacrifice one driver for the sake of the team. But it all became a moot point with Williams being so terrible in the wet and of course the super late call for inters allowing Vettel to snatch a podium!

The fact that you think Williams had the performance advantage to be able to hold Hamilton & Rosberg back just shows how out of touch you are, The only reason Bottas was able to hold onto P2 for so long was because of the tow and DRS he was getting from Massa, meaning Hamilton couldn't get close enough to Bottas because Hamilton had significantly further distance to catch up and overtake in.

As for the "sacrifice" point, it's pointless to risk a strategy like that to gain a potential 4 extra points when Bottas could have a car failure and they'd lose out massively, he could have a spin and lose out massively, it could rain and they'd lose out massively. The only time you do that is when the difference between the two cars is tyre compound, one is significantly faster than the other or if it is for the championship. They aren't in contention for the championship, they aren't under threat from Red Bull, they can't challenge Ferrari this season so the team made the right decision to hold station and race, hold onto P1 and P2 rather than risk big point losses for a miniscule chance of winning.

There you go, you are speculating, just as the rest of us are.
So, yeah, I'm for real, thanks for asking!

I'm not speculating, I'm giving you a logical, common sense, real world answer that a monkey could understand.

[myownalias]

I never said that Williams had a performance advantage, I said that with different strategic choices Williams could have won the race. Hamilton got ahead on strategy in the pits with the undercut, if Massa and/or Bottas had retained track position thought better strategy, I believe that the Williams were just about fast enough to stay ahead of the Mercedes if the race remained dry. Lets not forget that Romberg was stuck behind the two Williams until the rain started to fall where the Mercedes package is far superior.

[1Lemon]

The Williams had the wrong strategy, as always, they tried to keep close to the mercs by pitting near them; they simply did NOT have the pace to keep up on any track, but they could far more easily keep them behind due to dirty air etc. They should have gunned it for track position and done the undercut, instead they fell back and then they pitted too late for the inters.

As much as it pains me as a Williams and Bottas fan, even if he were in front of Massa, the end result would have been the same due to the shocking strategy AGAIN from Williams. Rob Smedley needs to sort this crap out!

[sagi58]

There you go, you are speculating, just as the rest of us are.
So, yeah, I'm for real, thanks for asking!

I'm not speculating, I'm giving you a logical, common sense, real world answer that a monkey could understand.

An educated guess is just the same as speculating.
Just as I'm speculating that you have a lot to learn when it comes to manners.

[RyRy]

All I can say to you guys is, maybe pictures help... this is in story form of my thoughts:

[myownalias]

RyRy has been permanently banned from Forumula 1 for his demeaning and insulting behavior in this thread!

He clearly intended to come back onto the forum to try to belittle the remaining members, he is not the sort of member we want to have on this forum.

Nothing to see here, move along....

[sagi58]

...As much as it pains me as a Williams and Bottas fan, even if he were in front of Massa, the end result would have been the same due to the shocking strategy AGAIN from Williams. Rob Smedley needs to sort this crap out!

I like Smedley and I like Massa. Then I think back to their time at Ferrari
and I realize I like them better now that they aren't at Ferrari.

[darwin dali]

Why?

[overboost]

I never said that Williams had a performance advantage, I said that with different strategic choices Williams could have won the race. Hamilton got ahead on strategy in the pits with the undercut, if Massa and/or Bottas had retained track position thought better strategy, I believe that the Williams were just about fast enough to stay ahead of the Mercedes if the race remained dry. Lets not forget that Romberg was stuck behind the two Williams until the rain started to fall where the Mercedes package is far superior.

A smarter Williams pitwall could have gotten a win at Silverstone. And certainly should have achieved the podium.

They were so vulnerable to the undercut, it was so obvious, and yet they did nothing to protect the leader. An instruction to Bottas to create a gap to Massa would have kept Massa in the lead and Bottas simply pitting whenever Hamilton pitted would have put Bottas in front of Rosberg. Tha rain may have changed things at the end but with Massa being so good in the wet in this race (much better than Bottas - 27s gap) he would have had every opportunity to take a win.

Instead Williams just let their drivers circulate aimlessly and waited for Mercedes to spring their trap and they didn't have a hope after that. An easy win for Mercedes and Rosberg was even able to take second!