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[CookinFlat6]

Alonso vs MnM has kicked off, we should see a couple of rounds before the race, maybe one on the grid, then a few on the radio, and then the big event itself as Alonso retires with 'engine issues' and arrives back at the pit where MnM is limbering up
http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/9575351/Alonso-fires-back-at-Ferrari-boss

they wanted passion, they wanted loyalty, they wanted wins they wanted to be allowed to win

I was having a really good laugh till I read this part

Probably I was too old when he tried to renew me until the Monza race and he kept pushing and pushing and we had a lot of talks. Even in the last moments again we had a lot of phone calls and a lot of emails that I still have on my computer. Probably at that time I was not so old, but when I took my decision I guess that he has to find another driver."

OMG, Alonso + mean old TP + emails = blackmail

At least we gonna see some real passion tomorrow

[Hammer278]

I swear when I read that part earlier today I was thinking if RD might've broken some sweat.

[Ferrari man 009]

Sorry if its already been mentioned but Raikkonen needs to up his game. Alonso beat him 17-2 this season in races, and the 2 were both when Alonso retired with technical issues. On both occasions he was ahead of Raikkonen at the time. Its near enough a complete whitewash. I know Alonso is good but Raikkonen hasn't been good enough. Even Massa beat Alonso occasionally.

[CookinFlat6]

Dont worry, they got Seb instead, he has 4 WDCS so will be twice as good as Alonso was and therefore Kimi can continue to collect his 30 mill pay cheque without any irritating feelings of maybe pulling his finger out

[stonemonkey]

Kimi beat him in belgium.

Not that it makes much difference i know.

[Ferrari man 009]

Kimi beat him in belgium.

Not that it makes much difference i know.

I apologise, Kimi managed to beat Alonso once. So in effect it was a 15-1 defeat if we discount Kimi's DNF at Silverstone (although technically that was his fault as he crashed)

[sagi58]

i realise you might think that tag team in the gif want to pump you up, but I dont see what this has to do with the ferrari factual support thread

That's the problem with irony!
Not everyone gets it!!

[sagi58]

Sorry if its already been mentioned but Raikkonen needs to up his game. Alonso beat him 17-2 this season in races, and the 2 were both when Alonso retired with technical issues. On both occasions he was ahead of Raikkonen at the time. Its near enough a complete whitewash. I know Alonso is good but Raikkonen hasn't been good enough. Even Massa beat Alonso occasionally.

Even if it's been mentioned, the truth of the matter is that you're right.
Here's hoping the end of this season will also be the beginning of a brighter one!

[sagi58]

I can understand your feelings Sagi, this is indeed the Ferrari support thread. But you know, that can't preclude anything that isn't a glowingly rosy comment about Ferrari...

You're absolutely right, RC! Having said that, without even bothering to do a search,
I'm sure when the shoe was on the other foot, it was a wee bit too tight for comfort.

[myownalias]

Although I am not a Ferrari fan, I truly hope that the sweeping changes in effect for next year will mean somewhat of a resurgence for the Prancing Horse, maybe Vettel can be M Schumacher mkII and drive Ferrari towards race and title winning ways. Bottom line is that I want as many teams in the title hunt as possible to improve the show, I dislike one team walkovers, regardless of what team it is. I have a soft spot for Williams but I want them to have to fight for the title, not have it handed to them!

[racechick]

I can understand your feelings Sagi, this is indeed the Ferrari support thread. But you know, that can't preclude anything that isn't a glowingly rosy comment about Ferrari...

You're absolutely right, RC! Having said that, without even bothering to do a search,
I'm sure when the shoe was on the other foot, it was a wee bit too tight for comfort.

Im not quite sure what you mean here. do you mean i don't allow people to say things i dislike concerning Hamilton?

[sagi58]

I can understand your feelings Sagi, this is indeed the Ferrari support thread. But you know, that can't preclude anything that isn't a glowingly rosy comment about Ferrari...

You're absolutely right, RC! Having said that, without even bothering to do a search,
I'm sure when the shoe was on the other foot, it was a wee bit too tight for comfort.

Im not quite sure what you mean here. do you mean i don't allow people to say things i dislike concerning Hamilton?

GENERALLY SPEAKING, any time a "non-fan" says something in the least bit NOT complimentary about Hamilton, the troops rally, assemble and attack with explanations, rationalizations and justifications as to why the "non-fan" is wrong, misguided, blind, ridiculous, ignorant, malcontent, etc.

And, you don't even have to google that, you can go into pretty well any thread to see shining examples of that.

[racechick]

I can understand your feelings Sagi, this is indeed the Ferrari support thread. But you know, that can't preclude anything that isn't a glowingly rosy comment about Ferrari...

You're absolutely right, RC! Having said that, without even bothering to do a search,
I'm sure when the shoe was on the other foot, it was a wee bit too tight for comfort.

Im not quite sure what you mean here. do you mean i don't allow people to say things i dislike concerning Hamilton?

GENERALLY SPEAKING, any time a "non-fan" says something in the least bit NOT complimentary about Hamilton, the troops rally, assemble and attack with explanations, rationalizations and justifications as to why the "non-fan" is wrong, misguided, blind, ridiculous, ignorant, malcontent, etc.

And, you don't even have to google that, you can go into pretty well any thread to see shining examples of that.

I'm still not sure what your point is? I've said from the outset that i will state my point regarding Hamilton but I'm not stopping people disagreeing with me. I welcome discussion and debate always have. But refusing to allow an opposing opinion or what you call 'a negative view' is something different. That stifles debate.

[CookinFlat6]

Sagi, you are more than welcome to use TRUE facts to show why an opinion is not based on reality, its just that everyone knows the list of logical fallacies already and so they cant be fooled for example when someone changes the subject, doesnt answer a question and steers the debate away, only to do a 'poor me' in the next sentence

Look at the following exchange carefully, Ferrariman asks a question, he gets and answer etc etc

Barge Boards - I don't know enough about it but Ferrari must have proved they were legal or provided no advantage for the FIA to overturn the decision, which has happened before.

My point was, I dont think any team deliberately cheats. I dont think Red Bull are cheats, they just push the limits of the rules exceptionally hard which is possibly why they have won the last 4 WCC's before this year. Let's make it clear that the part Red Bull got DQ'ed from qualifying for was a new part developed for the final race, so they probably just pushed the limits a little too far.

pushing the limits and corrupting the sport are 2 different things

And for Malaysia, Ferrari hastily confirmed that Schumacher was back, the German being rushed back into the car, apparently fully mended and ready to play the, erm, Irvine role to Irvine. It was a role he proved to be spectacularly adept at, grabbing pole position at the brand new Sepang circuit by nearly a second before allowing Irvine through into the lead early in the race, then backing up Hakkinen before letting the two-stopping Irvine through again in the closing stages of the race, and then simply tailgating him to the finish to hoover up the points for second place and leave Hakkinen floundering in third. After the chequered flag had fallen on the uncomfortably backwards-looking Ferrari 1-2, all that needed to happen was for the Ferrari cars to pass scrutineering, and it was advantage Irvine in the championship.

But it was that small matter, of course, that proved the issue. The scrutineers checked Irvine and Schumacher’s cars for conformity, and announced that the barge boards had been found to be outside the accepted rules, specifically that they were 10mm outside the acceptable size parameters. As a result, both cars were disqualified from the race, and Hakkinen was suddenly, and rather unceremoniously, crowned world champion. “Having heard the explanation of the competitors’ representative and the team’s technical director and having heard…the team’s acceptance that the bodywork did not conform, the stewards decide that neither car complies with Article 3.12.1 of the 1999 FIA FI technical regulations and therefore exclude both cars from the event,” the FIA confirmed in an unsuitably-dry statement for what was effectively set to be the decisive move in the championship for that year.

Ferrari were quick to appeal, instigating a confused defence of their position that at times either questioned the method that their cars had been measured, or the equipment used to measure it, or the fact that they had been raced in the same specification at the previous race at the Nurburgring without penalty, or simply claimed that the 10mm oversight had not handed the team any performance advantage whatsoever. And if that didn’t work, they’d simply try to argue that a double disqualification was a naff way of deciding a championship. “It seems impossible to me to lose a world championship over a story like this,” Irvine raged after the initial decision, “I hope the judges decide that the punishment was too heavy. I’m convinced that, aside from the facts of what happened, the final decision will take account of people’s good faith.”

To boost the Italian team on in their quest for their definition of justice, they found themselves with some unexpected supporters as they headed to the court of appeal. FOM chief Bernie Ecclestone was enraged that the simple issue of the technical regulations had got in the way of a money-spinning and attention-grabbing final round title showdown, saying: “What happened in Malaysia is bad for the sport. I would like what the public want – to see a great finish in Japan.” And even temporary champion Hakkinen was uncomfortable with the situation, muttering that: “I don’t really like it. It is not the way to win a title. It does not feel good to me. But the team does not want me to talk about this until after the hearing.”

The team certainly didn’t want him doing that, because as far as McLaren were concerned, it was vital to the sport – nay, the very fabric of the universe itself – that the disqualification be upheld. “The fact that the outcome of the Malaysian Grand Prix can decide this year’s World Championship is irrelevant,” the team trumpeted loudly in a statement on the eve of the hearing itself, “The more important [issue] is that the rules are applied consistently and fairly in accordance with the procedures which have been strictly adhered to in the past.”

On the 22nd October 1999, in the middle of the already-hectic turnaround between Malaysia and the finale in Japan, the appeal court heard Ferrari’s case, with the decision being announced the day after. In the end, their defence settled on the fact that the FIA’s delegates had used incorrect tools to measure their car, employing a straight ruler to check the dimensions of what was a curved surface. When Ferrari measured the actual dimensions of the barge board using some manner of bendy shatter resistant ruler, the team argued, the discrepancy was just about within the 5mm tolerance afforded to them by the regulations as they were written.

Which was an interesting defence, to say the least, because initially the team’s technical chief Ross Brawn had appeared to admit to the 10mm error in Sepang, bringing one of the offending barge boards along with him as a prop, and telling reporters that: “Regulations state that the bottom of the barge-board has to be the lowest surface when looking from the bottom of the car. Unfortunately, there is a piece missing, about ten millimetres or one centimetre. We haven’t established the reason why this has occurred. We have to establish what has gone wrong.” It turned out that in the time between Brawn’s post-Malaysia statement and Ferrari’s appeal date, it transpired that nothing had gone wrong beyond some woeful use of rulers on the part of the scrutineers.

Still, despite the slightly confusing narrative of Ferrari’s reaction to the claims, and to a large part because the FIA’s technical delegate Jo Bauer admitted during the hearing that there had been an error in the measurement method used, the court reversed the disqualifications, saying: “The International Court of Appeal has established that all dimensions of the [barge board] were within the 5 mm tolerance allowed by the relevant Regulations, the 10 mm dimension referred to in the Technical Delegate’s report resulted from a method of measurement which was not necessarily in strict conformity with the Regulations [and] the measuring equipment available to the FIA Scrutineers at the Malaysian Grand Prix was not sufficiently accurate to call into question Ferrari’s statement.”

The much-wanted title decider was back on, and McLaren were, naturally, incandescent. “[This is] a bad day for the sport,” Ron Dennis thundered, “A way has been found to provide a reason for the appeal to be upheld. Everybody wants to have an exciting race in Japan, but I think that the price we have paid is too great.” The team’s then-managing director Martin Whitmarsh added: “This interpretation of the rules would appear to change the way in which cars are checked to ensure compliance with the technical regulations.” Only Hakkinen himself, dignified as ever throughout the whole debacle, remained level-headed, saying that he was “looking forward to the Japanese Grand Prix and the I will do my best to win the race and the World Championship”.

And as much as the McLaren reaction was unnecessarily pious, the Ferrari one was indulgently self-congratulatory. “Ferrari is very satisfied with the verdict which recognises the total conformity of our cars with the regulations,” Luca di Montezemolo beamed, “This verdict reaffirms the values of the sport which have inspired Ferrari over fifty years and restores to us and our fans the great victory achieved on the track, which confirms the quality of our work.” Irvine, for his part, jumped around the place screaming: “It’s fantastic! They’ve given back a result on the track that we fully deserved.”

It was a thoroughly inelegant little segue in the already-confused and imperfect narrative of the 1999 season, and one that lent itself easily to scurrilous and rather tedious accusations of FIA bias towards the Ferrari team, or at least towards the idea of a title-deciding season finale at any cost, regardless of what the regulations say. Which is not the most tinfoil-hatted conclusion to make from the incident given the way that the whole mess played out.

[CookinFlat6]

Breaking news!!!!! Maurizio Arrivabene named Ferrari Team Principal, replacing Marco Mattiacci

And guess what the new boss wants to do as a priority???

Bring back Aldo Costa from Merc

Comedic opera doesnt come any better especially when you consider that the new chaps name means 'good arrival' in Italian - maybe thats why they chose him