- 25 Apr 10, 04:02#197439
Would the F-Duct become useless when under the tow or the wake of another car? This would be because the airflow to the intake would be inefficient rendering it ineffective?
Sebastian Vettel, Youngest WDC!
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That's what a stalled wing is..... When pressure on each side of the winged surface are relatively the same downforce or lift are no longer created.
That's what a stalled wing is..... When pressure on each side of the winged surface are relatively the same downforce or lift are no longer created.
Sorry, that's incorrect. That just means it's not generating lift. If that were the case, the wings of an aeroplane parked on the tarmac could be said to be "stalled." Or the carton of milk sitting in my fridge is "stalled." A stall occurs when a wing's angle of attack exceeds its critical angle, causing boundary layer separation. In subsonic aerodynamics, any definition of a stall necessarily must involve boundary layer separation. No boundary layer separation, no stall.
And you can't stall a wing without also inducing a vibration (a consequence of the air becoming turbulent where the boundary layer has separated). I rather doubt Hambone would be very keen on the thought that his rear wing should begin shuddering when he sticks his knee in the hole at 300 kph.
Unfortunately, the majority of the automotive media have too little grounding in aerodynamics to do anything apart parroting the buzzwords they pick up from someone else who they think know what's happening.
I finally found someone who appears to have got it right. Of all sources, Wired magazine has an online article that explains it perfectly. What's happening is the opposite of what's been speculated and, unless my meager Italian fails me, it works the opposite of how it's explained in the video supeindesu linked to.
I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier. Introducing additional airflow into the slot between the wings would not induce a stall. In fact, because of what's known as the Coanda effect, it should be increasing lift (and drag), not decreasing it. "Blown flaps" on STOL aeroplanes have operated on that principle for more than 50 years.
The McLaren's nominal condition is for the flow to be open. The redirected air increases lift all along until [knee in hole], then it's stopped. No Coanda effect means less lift but no extra vibration.
Everything fits. It accomplishes the principal objectives with no untoward side effects.
That's what a stalled wing is..... When pressure on each side of the winged surface are relatively the same downforce or lift are no longer created.
Sorry, that's incorrect. That just means it's not generating lift. If that were the case, the wings of an aeroplane parked on the tarmac could be said to be "stalled." Or the carton of milk sitting in my fridge is "stalled." A stall occurs when a wing's angle of attack exceeds its critical angle, causing boundary layer separation. In subsonic aerodynamics, any definition of a stall necessarily must involve boundary layer separation. No boundary layer separation, no stall.
And you can't stall a wing without also inducing a vibration (a consequence of the air becoming turbulent where the boundary layer has separated). I rather doubt Hambone would be very keen on the thought that his rear wing should begin shuddering when he sticks his knee in the hole at 300 kph.
Unfortunately, the majority of the automotive media have too little grounding in aerodynamics to do anything apart parroting the buzzwords they pick up from someone else who they think know what's happening.
I finally found someone who appears to have got it right. Of all sources, Wired magazine has an online article that explains it perfectly. What's happening is the opposite of what's been speculated and, unless my meager Italian fails me, it works the opposite of how it's explained in the video supeindesu linked to.
I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier. Introducing additional airflow into the slot between the wings would not induce a stall. In fact, because of what's known as the Coanda effect, it should be increasing lift (and drag), not decreasing it. "Blown flaps" on STOL aeroplanes have operated on that principle for more than 50 years.
The McLaren's nominal condition is for the flow to be open. The redirected air increases lift all along until [knee in hole], then it's stopped. No Coanda effect means less lift but no extra vibration.
Everything fits. It accomplishes the principal objectives with no untoward side effects.
Quote from your referenced Wired mag article:
'When the driver closes the vent, it essentially stalls the rear wing, thereby reducing drag and increasing speed on the straightaways.'
I get that (creating more down force with the extra air flow). However, it clearly states that once the vent is closed, i.e., no more extra air flow, the wing essentially stalls, thereby reducing drag.
Would that mean that the driver would have to keep the hole covered on twisty sections and when braking?
I get that (creating more down force with the extra air flow). However, it clearly states that once the vent is closed, i.e., no more extra air flow, the wing essentially stalls, thereby reducing drag.
It either stalls or it doesn't. "Essentially" don't count. No boundary layer separation, no stall. Period. Full stop. On that point, they're at best being over-simplistic. Wrong is closer to the truth.
Their other option is trying to explain the Coanda effect to a public with a 30-second attention span.Would that mean that the driver would have to keep the hole covered on twisty sections and when braking?
No, the McLaren cars ordinarily produce a bit of extra downforce due to the Coanda effect from that little bit of air forced from the F-duct through the slot in the wing. The knee valve cuts off the flow and, along with it, the Coanda effect.
I get that (creating more down force with the extra air flow). However, it clearly states that once the vent is closed, i.e., no more extra air flow, the wing essentially stalls, thereby reducing drag.
It either stalls or it doesn't. "Essentially" don't count. No boundary layer separation, no stall. Period. Full stop. On that point, they're at best being over-simplistic. Wrong is closer to the truth.
Their other option is trying to explain the Coanda effect to a public with a 30-second attention span.Would that mean that the driver would have to keep the hole covered on twisty sections and when braking?
No, the McLaren cars ordinarily produce a bit of extra downforce due to the Coanda effect from that little bit of air forced from the F-duct through the slot in the wing. The knee valve cuts off the flow and, along with it, the Coanda effect.
So basically what you're saying is that the rear wing isn't stalled but essentially they are just taking away a percentage of downforce. So say normally the rear wing is running 100% downforce once they close the duct it then runs at say 70% downforce all along creating downforce so cannot be called a stall.
That right Fred?
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