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[Jabberwocky]

Today I have been debating in my mind, I am not sure how it is going to go down on the forum, either no one will post on it or it will cause a maelstrom of debate.

2 events of late have brought me to thinking about this.

1. Someone asked on a facebook group, if any of the members where born 1st May 1994.
2. A chicken was walking around the preschool car park when I drop the boy off. One of my friends said that her mum loved chickens and one randomly turned up at her funeral. To which I said maybe she was reincarnated as a chicken.

Now, to be reincarnated means that some sort of entity/spirit has to transfer from one place to another. So at what point in gestation does this happen? Is the spirit transferred at the moment of birth, so if you where born on the 1st May 1994 you could be Senna, or would it be the moment of conception that it happens.

Then depending on how you answer that question it changes peoples outcome on abortion.


(so in one post I have included religion, and the politics of abortion, all good things for a forum to have a dicussion on)

[What's Burning?]

I've held the belief that at some point we'll be able to upload out consciousness into a synthetic storage device.

From a purely practical standpoint however it doesn't fit mathematically, there would be more consciousnesses than there would be hosts. So having felt a mental connection myself I'm of the belief that there's way more to our capacity than we've yet to discover, exploit, learn to use or control. I'm not talking about supernatural mumbo jumbo, but things that are or will be demonstrably and scientifically reproducible.

There's a show on BBC America called Intruders. My wife got me into it, it's actually turning out to be a good overarching idea, and you know I turned you on to Orphan Black. You should check it out, it covers the subject matter.

[Hammer278]

But seriously.

Reincarnation is interesting. I don't know what's after death (OH NO REALLY!?) but I like the mystery of it.

Alls I ask is if reincarnation is real, I want to be reborn and have the opportunity (immediate exposure) to be a Formula 1 driver.If it ain't real, I hope Satan is a party animal.

[What's Burning?]

I didn't want to go visit grandma and grandpa when they were alive, I'm going to want to see them for all eternity when I'm dead?

[CookinFlat6]

Nice one Jabs, should go down a storm with the religious ones

Looking at th facts we do have, the transfer cannot be on the day someone is born because an unborn baby already responds to voices and music in the womb and some adult traits can be tracked back to the secure feeling in the womb
So when could the transfer happen? It would have to be just after the death in fact there is a theory about the corpse losing 8 grams in weight at that point. So say the spirit hops out the body after death then there's no need for it to be instantly in somewhere else cos it's obviously able to spend t least a fraction of time in between.
So it could be parking and waiting for a suitable embryo in a period of time. If that's the case then it could wait for indefinetly.
If it leaves a body after death then it could also be in a body before life. So at any point between the embryo forming the DNA structure it needs from the 2 sets it starts with
Which is way before abortions are done - so abortions are murder
But then if that's the case the spirit would be able to hop out of the embryo and start again

So the body it finally wakes up in should matter but the whole idea of reincarnation is that it's deterministic so who chooses the embryo? And why? Cos of the parents in which case it would have to hope the same couple do it again without the abortion
Or maybe it's a genetic mix that decided the new host in which case it could be hanging around a man or woman waiting for them to meet the right person and hope they don't abort, but what if it doesn't matter and it's purely random
Then it would be exactly similar to what we have now, randomly people are born who seem like previous people and statistically every so often someone would have a dream about what someone in the past did etc

Heavy stuff indeed, let's see what the 1 line hit and run types or the 'reduce everything to smut' types can add

[Jabberwocky]

I've held the belief that at some point we'll be able to upload out consciousness into a synthetic storage device.

From a purely practical standpoint however it doesn't fit mathematically, there would be more consciousnesses than there would be hosts. So having felt a mental connection myself I'm of the belief that there's way more to our capacity than we've yet to discover, exploit, learn to use or control. I'm not talking about supernatural mumbo jumbo, but things that are or will be demonstrably and scientifically reproducible.

There's a show on BBC America called Intruders. My wife got me into it, it's actually turning out to be a good overarching idea, and you know I turned you on to Orphan Black. You should check it out, it covers the subject matter.

Have you been watching Battlestar Gallactica again!

[Jabberwocky]

But seriously.

Reincarnation is interesting. I don't know what's after death (OH NO REALLY!?) but I like the mystery of it.

Alls I ask is if reincarnation is real, I want to be reborn and have the opportunity (immediate exposure) to be a Formula 1 driver.If it ain't real, I hope Satan is a party animal.

You might not like F1 next time round

[What's Burning?]

But seriously.

Reincarnation is interesting. I don't know what's after death (OH NO REALLY!?) but I like the mystery of it.

Alls I ask is if reincarnation is real, I want to be reborn and have the opportunity (immediate exposure) to be a Formula 1 driver.If it ain't real, I hope Satan is a party animal.

You might not like F1 next time round

Hammer will come back as an ugly chick next time round.

[Jabberwocky]

Nice one Jabs, should go down a storm with the religious ones

Looking at th facts we do have, the transfer cannot be on the day someone is born because an unborn baby already responds to voices and music in the womb and some adult traits can be tracked back to the secure feeling in the womb
So when could the transfer happen? It would have to be just after the death in fact there is a theory about the corpse losing 8 grams in weight at that point. So say the spirit hops out the body after death then there's no need for it to be instantly in somewhere else cos it's obviously able to spend t least a fraction of time in between.
So it could be parking and waiting for a suitable embryo in a period of time. If that's the case then it could wait for indefinetly.
If it leaves a body after death then it could also be in a body before life. So at any point between the embryo forming the DNA structure it needs from the 2 sets it starts with
Which is way before abortions are done - so abortions are murder
But then if that's the case the spirit would be able to hop out of the embryo and start again

So the body it finally wakes up in should matter but the whole idea of reincarnation is that it's deterministic so who chooses the embryo? And why? Cos of the parents in which case it would have to hope the same couple do it again without the abortion
Or maybe it's a genetic mix that decided the new host in which case it could be hanging around a man or woman waiting for them to meet the right person and hope they don't abort, but what if it doesn't matter and it's purely random
Then it would be exactly similar to what we have now, randomly people are born who seem like previous people and statistically every so often someone would have a dream about what someone in the past did etc

Heavy stuff indeed, let's see what the 1 line hit and run types or the 'reduce everything to smut' types can add

If the human race is growing, where are all the extra spirits coming from? maybe there is a pool of spirits waiting to come back, or maybe all the extra spirits are of the dead animals that have been made extinct as the human race grows.

[Hammer278]

Never considered it from that angle Jabbo. Extinct animals becoming humans (is this considered a 'step up' in the souls lifecycle or pathway to God?) Or just another 'body' to hold the soul.

How do animals with no reasoning capability hold souls which could become thinking, reasoning human beings in the next life? I find this hard to buy. However, human beings which are dying and being reborn, and maybe a pool of souls as you say, in some other realm (heaven or hell) could find their way back to this world due to being punished (or rewarded?) in those realms.

But if you think about it, we can even clone animals/humans nowadays. What was the name of that sheep again....can't recall. However, the personality or soul of that cloned sheep would be a different one from the original. So where did this extra soul come from? How did it get here?

Also ghosts. Are these entities which are souls 'in between' bodies then? I might believe so. Or are they just lost and have no chance for a new life. So when we perform an exorcism, where do they go? To that other realm or find their way to their new body?

I just blew my f**king mind. With more questions than answers.

[Jabberwocky]

The cloned sheep spirit would just come out of the pool.

My mate had a theory years ago that ghosts are just echos of the past. Recorded into the surroundings that are metallic, and when the conditions are right due to humidity and static/lightning charges around for the echo to be replayed much like a VCR tape

[stonemonkey]

We are just piles of atoms obeying the physical laws of the universe.


In my opinion.

[Jabberwocky]

As unromantic as it sounds I do tend to agree with you

[stonemonkey]

As unromantic as it sounds I do tend to agree with you

In that vein, i do find life and it's evolution an incredible wonder and far more facinating and beautiful to think about rather than just saying some unseen mystical being made it all.

[CookinFlat6]

Nice one Jabs, should go down a storm with the religious ones

Looking at th facts we do have, the transfer cannot be on the day someone is born because an unborn baby already responds to voices and music in the womb and some adult traits can be tracked back to the secure feeling in the womb
So when could the transfer happen? It would have to be just after the death in fact there is a theory about the corpse losing 8 grams in weight at that point. So say the spirit hops out the body after death then there's no need for it to be instantly in somewhere else cos it's obviously able to spend t least a fraction of time in between.
So it could be parking and waiting for a suitable embryo in a period of time. If that's the case then it could wait for indefinetly.
If it leaves a body after death then it could also be in a body before life. So at any point between the embryo forming the DNA structure it needs from the 2 sets it starts with
Which is way before abortions are done - so abortions are murder
But then if that's the case the spirit would be able to hop out of the embryo and start again

So the body it finally wakes up in should matter but the whole idea of reincarnation is that it's deterministic so who chooses the embryo? And why? Cos of the parents in which case it would have to hope the same couple do it again without the abortion
Or maybe it's a genetic mix that decided the new host in which case it could be hanging around a man or woman waiting for them to meet the right person and hope they don't abort, but what if it doesn't matter and it's purely random
Then it would be exactly similar to what we have now, randomly people are born who seem like previous people and statistically every so often someone would have a dream about what someone in the past did etc

Heavy stuff indeed, let's see what the 1 line hit and run types or the 'reduce everything to smut' types can add

If the human race is growing, where are all the extra spirits coming from? maybe there is a pool of spirits waiting to come back, or maybe all the extra spirits are of the dead animals that have been made extinct as the human race grows.

There are 2 ways if we look at all of nature, either the spirits multiply each time or are getting promoted like you suggest, the question then fits back to wether it's random or deterministic, again if it's any different from what we have now, once in a while we see an anomaly