FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

Discuss the sport you love with other motorsport fans

#398886
I'm expecting Vettel to finish as the best of the Renault engines this years... Would be good to see him mount a challenge on Mercedes, but I doubt it will happen. Mercedes easily have between 5 tenths and 1 second advantage over Red Bull. Everybody knows that that is an insurmountable gap.

Vettel has at times struggled in the first half of a season, but usually get it together during the later half of the season. That could still be achievable as well. 2010 and 2012 is a good example of that. Vettel only really started to lead the championship around Singapore race of those years...

In those years he was also a little bit slower than Webber during the first few several rounds, noticeably Monaco and Silverstone.

In 2012, McLaren appeared to be the strongest team after the first few rounds, however that was the crazy situation where there were umpteen different winners in the first umpteen races....

This season is much different though - Mercedes are incredibly strong, and then the biggest contenders for runners up in the WCC would be either Williams or Force India. At this stage I'd put Red Bull at 3rd, 4th or 5th strongest in the field.

It'll be interesting to see how quickly people minimise Newey's involvement in the team. HE was apparently the one who apparently single-handedly got Red Bull to their winning position. Wonder what the Newey worshipers are saying now.... :rolleyes:
#398890
I think the Newey fans realise that until the engine is up to spec the aero advantages can't be maximised. And without them Vettel looks quite ordinary. He has to beat his teammate before he can finish best Renault engine. He might do, but it's not looking good.
#398893
I think the Newey fans realise that until the engage is up to spec the aero advantages can't be maximised. And without them Vettel looks quite ordinary. He has to beat his teammate before he can finish best Renault engine. He might do, but it's not looking good.


Currently he's ahead of Ricciardo in the championship standings - that's all that matters, even if Ricciardo has been incredibly unlucky. Vettel's input into the cars development will definitely mean that he will be more comfortable with the car in a few races time. Then he will surely be ahead of Ricciardo.

With Vettel it's simple - the car just isn't too his liking. He's been in this position a few times before, and I'm very confident that he will finish stronger than Ricciardo.

Although one thing is really interesting - with Vettel being so uncomfortable with the car - why was Ricciardo the only Red Bull driver present during the Testing at Bahrain earlier this week? I can only think that it was a pre-arranged thing with Ricciardo being the newest driver in the team, so theoretically needing more time in the car to adapt.

If anything, the tests have given Ricciardo and even stronger advantage against Vettel.
#398895
You mean he'll get more say in the direction the car goes than Ricciardo does? Well that's as may be, but if Ricciardo can drive a car designed round Vettel! as well as Vettel can, then Vettel will still have problems .
#398896
For me the telling part of the Seb vs Danny Ricc story are not the points but the performances and attitudes.

Seb with Webber was multi 21 and crashing while trying to overtake. Seb with Ricc is like 'where exactly is best for you to pass me Danny?', would never have happened with Webber but then we never heard 'your teammate is faster than you, move over'

The way Ricc called it and the way a Seb moved, and the way Seb always had issues when been beaten by his teammate tells me Seb knows it all up. He lost his Newey trick and has a better and more talented teammate. And he knows it
#398929
Currently he's ahead of Ricciardo in the championship standings - that's all that matters, even if Ricciardo has been incredibly unlucky.

I wonder if Vettel secretly wants Red Bull to lose the appeal on Monday. :hehe:
#398931
You are not saying that is why Seb called the new F1 s*** - leading to reports that Todt had offered a deal to RBR along the lines of 'drop your appeal, and we let Seb off'

:director::shrug:
#399012
I think the Newey fans realise that until the engine is up to spec the aero advantages can't be maximised. And without them Vettel looks quite ordinary. He has to beat his teammate before he can finish best Renault engine. He might do, but it's not looking good.

But... doesn't that prove that F1 is a "team" sport? I mean, there has to be a
concerted and proportionate input from all angles, for a winning combination.
Driver + Car + Team (i.e. engineers, pit wall and crew, etc.) + Lady Luck.

Last year, that was Vettel and Red Bull, this year, it's not.
#399017
I think the Newey fans realise that until the engine is up to spec the aero advantages can't be maximised. And without them Vettel looks quite ordinary. He has to beat his teammate before he can finish best Renault engine. He might do, but it's not looking good.

But... doesn't that prove that F1 is a "team" sport? I mean, there has to be a
concerted and proportionate input from all angles, for a winning combination.
Driver + Car + Team (i.e. engineers, pit wall and crew, etc.) + Lady Luck.

Last year, that was Vettel and Red Bull, this year, it's not.


I'm not quite sure what you're saying here :confused: yes, of course for an F1 team to win there have to be several components in place, and currently it's in place most successfully at Mercedes. But we were discussing the red Bull's drop in form and the fact that Vettel looks rather ordinary alongside Ricciardo now that he can't avail himself of Newey's superior rear downforce.
#399018
I think the Newey fans realise that until the engine is up to spec the aero advantages can't be maximised. And without them Vettel looks quite ordinary. He has to beat his teammate before he can finish best Renault engine. He might do, but it's not looking good.

But... doesn't that prove that F1 is a "team" sport? I mean, there has to be a
concerted and proportionate input from all angles, for a winning combination.
Driver + Car + Team (i.e. engineers, pit wall and crew, etc.) + Lady Luck.

Last year, that was Vettel and Red Bull, this year, it's not.


I'm not quite sure what you're saying here :confused: yes, of course for an F1 team to win there have to be several components in place, and currently it's in place most successfully at Mercedes. But we were discussing the red Bull's drop in form and the fact that Vettel looks rather ordinary alongside Ricciardo now that he can't avail himself of Newey's superior rear downforce.

My apologies, RC... I picked up and responded to the word "ordinary" in your post;
however, I forgot to highlight it, as I'd intended! Mea culpa!!

Basically I meant that it doesn't matter how strong a driver is, if the car doesn't perform.
Just as it doesn't matter how strong the car is, if the driver can't get at its potential.

As was pointed out, already, Vettel seems to need a few races under his belt before he's
up to form. Not sure why that is; but, I'm sure there must be a valid reason for it, no?
#399019
Yep. Can't argue with that. The car gotta be quick. :skidmarks:
#399055
I think the Newey fans realise that until the engine is up to spec the aero advantages can't be maximised. And without them Vettel looks quite ordinary. He has to beat his teammate before he can finish best Renault engine. He might do, but it's not looking good.

But... doesn't that prove that F1 is a "team" sport? I mean, there has to be a
concerted and proportionate input from all angles, for a winning combination.
Driver + Car + Team (i.e. engineers, pit wall and crew, etc.) + Lady Luck.

Last year, that was Vettel and Red Bull, this year, it's not.


I'm not quite sure what you're saying here :confused: yes, of course for an F1 team to win there have to be several components in place, and currently it's in place most successfully at Mercedes. But we were discussing the red Bull's drop in form and the fact that Vettel looks rather ordinary alongside Ricciardo now that he can't avail himself of Newey's superior rear downforce.

My apologies, RC... I picked up and responded to the word "ordinary" in your post;
however, I forgot to highlight it, as I'd intended! Mea culpa!!

Basically I meant that it doesn't matter how strong a driver is, if the car doesn't perform.
Just as it doesn't matter how strong the car is, if the driver can't get at its potential.

As was pointed out, already, Vettel seems to need a few races under his belt before he's
up to form. Not sure why that is; but, I'm sure there must be a valid reason for it, no?


It was previously said by Toro Rosso that Vettel had an amazing mechanical aptitude. I'd imagine that, and his ability to put down consistent, fast laps means he has the car developed to his liking over the first few rounds.

I think 2012 is a good example of a Vettel season when he doesn't start off with a fast car:

He started off with a 2nd place finish in Australia, Finished 11th in Malaysia after Cucumber-gate, and then finished 5th in China. So after three races he had only scored 28 points. This year he so far has 23 points. (But the big difference is that whereas in 2012 he leader after 3 races (Hamilton) was on 45 points, whereas this year Rosberg is already on 61 points. So Vettel is already 21 points worse-off this season).

Then in 2012 Vettel surprisingly turned up to Bahrain and got a hat trick, but he didn't win another race until Singapore - 10 races later...

Between Bahrain and Singapore that year, Vettel only had 2 podium finishes. Then POW! Four wins in a row. Also his record at Suzuka and Singapore is impressive. I would usually add Korea and India into the mix as well but they're not on the calendar this year.

I guess it's just going to be a question of whether the Mercedes cars will continue their dominance or not....
#399056
Remember those days fondly... they may be long in coming back. I'd personally give Vettel a lot of credit if he manages to put the RB10 on the podium like Ricciardo has, even more credit if he win a race like other past WDCs have done when they've not had the fastest car. I think this is Vettel's prove it year. He's got a tough team mate, he's lost his trick aero dominance that only he knew how to work and his team mate didn't, and they started the season on the back foot.

I'll gain a lot of respect for him is he can overcome that, driving without a clear advantage.
#399062
Remember those days fondly... they may be long in coming back. I'd personally give Vettel a lot of credit if he manages to put the RB10 on the podium like Ricciardo has, even more credit if he win a race like other past WDCs have done when they've not had the fastest car. I think this is Vettel's prove it year. He's got a tough team mate, he's lost his trick aero dominance that only he knew how to work and his team mate didn't, and they started the season on the back foot.

I'll gain a lot of respect for him is he can overcome that, driving without a clear advantage.


Yeah. If Ricciardo finishes ahead consistantly this year, alot will be said.
  • 1
  • 207
  • 208
  • 209
  • 210
  • 211
  • 246

See our F1 related articles too!