FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

Discuss the sport you love with other motorsport fans

Formula One related discussion.
User avatar
By darwin dali
#437685
ESPNF1:
The FIA will warn teams about the consequences of carrying out "fake" pit stops in Hungary after Mercedes' attempts to fool Williams during the British Grand Prix.

On lap 14 at Silverstone Mercedes mechanics ran out into the pit lane while Williams were first and second, only for neither of its cars to stop for tyres. After the race Mercedes boss Toto Wolff admitted "it was a bit of a game" - something which prompted an amusing text exchange with his wife, Williams test driver Susie.

Article 23.11 of the Sporting Regulations states: "Team personnel are only allowed in the pit lane immediately before they are required to work on a car and must withdraw as soon as the work is complete." However, no action was taken against Mercedes during or after the race.

FIA race director Charlie Whiting wants to ensure a precedent is not set and will lay down the law to teams in Hungary.

"Going into the pit lane like this, ie, for no valid reason, is not allowed but the difficulty would be proving it was a clear breach," he told the BBC. "I will talk to all the teams - at the next race in Hungary - about this and warn them that we will want to see and hear evidence that they were actually intending to stop."

Whiting says Mercedes was not called in to explain its actions because it was impossible to judge at the time whether the team intended to stop or not.

"At the time, what Mercedes did was OK as no-one knew that they were not actually going to stop. In fact we still don't really know. However, in view of the fact that they were alleged to have said that it was a 'dummy' stop, they may have put their foot in it rather."

A c'mon! What's wrong with a little gambling? Does everything in F1 have to be stifled, regulated, controlled? :rolleyes:
User avatar
By Jabberwocky
#437686
I think it is to do with reducing the risk to the pit crew being in the pit lane.

Tbh the new rules would be easy to circumvent.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
User avatar
By sagi58
#437687
...Tbh the new rules would be easy to circumvent...

Aren't most of them?

e.g.< team orders :wink:
User avatar
By stonemonkey
#437688
To see a team that's dominating to such an extent resort to silly tactics looked like a daft move to me, I don't want to see the teams running in and out playing games like that in the pitlane.
User avatar
By myownalias
#437690
It really is another one of those rules that is not enforced like the NO TEAM ORDERS rule a few years back when everyone would openly flout those rules by using code words. My feeling is that if these rules are not going to be enforced fairly and equally, just dump the rule... a rule that is not enforced is no rule at all in my eyes.
User avatar
By stonemonkey
#437691
It's a bit different from the No team orders as it's obvious when it's been done in such a way, there are cases where there may be suspected tyre or car damage that the pit crew might want to be prepared but again that would usually be obvious and understandable so could be overlooked or if for some other legitimate reason then the team would have to be able to show the data that led to their actions.
I don't know what punishment could be dished out though, it's not something a driver could be penalised for so it's have to be a team penalty in the form of a fine or something.
User avatar
By overboost
#437699
"It was a bit of a game that didn't work," conceded Wolff.
"We know Williams has difficulty making the tyres last and we knew that taking an early pit stop might trigger them into a pit stop that would cause them problems.
"At least it was a bit of entertainment."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/33403578

With Wolff readily admitting it was a fake pit stop a penalty definitely is appropriate. A grid drop in Hungary for both drivers perhaps?

It amazes me that Mercedes is so ready to cheat even with a supercar that gives them a way out of almost any situation with its sheer pace. Poor starts and mistakes by their drivers surprisingly for the first time this season put Williams ahead and Merc's reflex reaction is to fake a pitstop! They have shown this disregard of the regulations as was clearly shown with their secret and illegal testing sessions, it is just who this team is.

With their behind the scenes influence the risk of any penalty was low and sure enough the FIA issues a 'stern' warning to everyone. :yawn:
User avatar
By sagi58
#437700
...It amazes me that Mercedes is so ready to cheat even with a supercar that gives them a way out of almost any situation with its sheer pace. Poor starts and mistakes by their drivers surprisingly for the first time this season put Williams ahead and Merc's reflex reaction is to fake a pitstop! ...


I guess they feel the need to "rub it in"?
Again, sore winners are worse than sore losers.
User avatar
By stonemonkey
#437702
Yep, it's reminiscent of some of the things pulled during the Schumacher era of dominance and I don't particularly want to see merc start down that route.
User avatar
By sagi58
#437704
Yep, it's reminiscent of some of the things pulled during the Schumacher era of dominance and I don't particularly want to see merc start down that route.

Oddly enough, I've made that comparison to some Hamilton/Mercedes fans and they literally freak out :yikes: ;
because, you know, it's Hammertime and you can't touch them :nono: !!
User avatar
By darwin dali
#437705
Yep, it's reminiscent of some of the things pulled during the Schumacher era of dominance and I don't particularly want to see merc start down that route.

Oddly enough, I've made that comparison to some Hamilton/Mercedes fans and they literally freak out :yikes: ;
because, you know, it's Hammertime and you can't touch them :nono: !!

Let's let sleeping dogs lie...
User avatar
By racechick
#437706
"It was a bit of a game that didn't work," conceded Wolff.
"We know Williams has difficulty making the tyres last and we knew that taking an early pit stop might trigger them into a pit stop that would cause them problems.
"At least it was a bit of entertainment."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/33403578

With Wolff readily admitting it was a fake pit stop a penalty definitely is appropriate. A grid drop in Hungary for both drivers perhaps?

It amazes me that Mercedes is so ready to cheat even with a supercar that gives them a way out of almost any situation with its sheer pace. Poor starts and mistakes by their drivers surprisingly for the first time this season put Williams ahead and Merc's reflex reaction is to fake a pitstop! They have shown this disregard of the regulations as was clearly shown with their secret and illegal testing sessions, it is just who this team is.

With their behind the scenes influence the risk of any penalty was low and sure enough the FIA issues a 'stern' warning to everyone. :yawn:



Well Overboost, you certainly know how to generate debate I'll give you that. You are right that Mercedes fell foul of a rule regarding dummy pitstops, Toto immediately put his hand up to that. He didn't have to of course, he could have lied as some teams may have done, and said something along the lines...we had an understanding that if this or that happened blah blah blah, but he didn't, he was truthful. Yet it was hardly crime of the century. Suzie and Toto were whatsapping about it at the time:
Suzie...you needn't think you can trick us like that
Toto... Should I not come home for tea tonight? Shall I get an Indian take away?
But since a rule was broken then the FIA had every right to punish Mercedes for their gamesmanship should they have chosen to. Perhaps a fine or a reprimand? But a grid drop for both their drivers for the next race? Are you serious or desperate? I suspect the latter since without the rain Ferrari would have been severely embarrassed by Williams at Silverstone. Williams with a fraction of Ferrari's budget made their upgrades count and Ferrari were only saved by the rain. Despite all the array of upgrades Ferrari brought in Spain they still were slower than Williams in the dry. And how did Ferrari manage to come up with all those upgrades in Spain with limited development? Changes to the front wing, floor, sidepods, diffuser and rear wing endplates? Well there is a way. You get a team called Hass, which has no development restrictions because it isn't competing this year to do it all for you. Boom! Now that's what I call serious cheating! But then Ferrari were always serious about their cheating.
I'm sorry if this is unpalatable and upsets, but maybe you shouldn't call other teams cheats for bluffing about their hand when your own team sits with three aces stuffed up its sleeve!!

Sagi, I am surprised at your comments regarding Mercedes and Hamilton, when you have gone to such lengths in the past to ensure unpleasant comments are not made regarding the team you support. But you are right on one count, when it comes to Hamilton and Mercedes, you can't touch 'em ! :hehe:
User avatar
By Stephen
#437708
My heart sank when they did that - it was obvious and completely unnecessary. And, in fact, I think it was so obvious that Toto had to concede that they had broken the rules.

Had Williams covered them off this would have changed the outcome of the race - in this circumstance severe penalties would likely be applied. However, as we know, Williams screwed the pooch leaving Massa ahead of Bottas, and Mercedes won through teamwork (ignoring this complete shocker) and a great drive by Hamilton.
User avatar
By sagi58
#437710
...Sagi, I am surprised at your comments regarding Mercedes and Hamilton, when you have gone to such lengths in the past to ensure unpleasant comments are not made regarding the team you support. But you are right on one count, when it comes to Hamilton and Mercedes, you can't touch 'em ! :hehe:


Not sure what it is that you've taken offence to, as NONE was intended!! Let me clarify:

Hamilton/Mercedes are enjoying the same dominance that Schumi/Ferrari did, in the day!
Hamilton/Mercedes are enjoying the same dominance that Vettel/Red Bull did, a few years ago!
The ONE thing they ALL have in common is that during their respective dominance, they had an
advantage that no one else on the grid did. They also share a love/hate relationship with F1 fans.

What Hamilton/Mercedes fans would do well to realize is the same thing that Schumi/Ferrari and
Vettel/Red Bull fans know all too well... it won't last forever!! Enjoy it while you can!! :wink:

p.s. it's nice to see you posting, RC!! :thumbup:

See our F1 related articles too!