FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[CookinFlat6]

I thought it would be better to have a dedicated thread to track this increasingly convoluted situation at McLaren, as the season finale approaches and an apparent unresolved driver line up for 2015. Alonso has had advanced talks with the team and agreed to a 2 year deal as opposed to a 1 year temporary stepping stone affair. Yet it seems he is still messing around,now dropping hints that he might force Ferrari to pay him to leave etc etc. Some say he is a Prima Donna, however Honda want him and are paying so thats ok. He has now been given a deadline to sign up and stop stroking himself. Ofcourse he will sign up which will leave Button out of F1 as he doesnt appear to have set anything else up.

F1 (and Mclaren) has a history of juicy team/driver splits, indeed Jenson is famously known as the guy to renege on TWO different teams and induce court proceedings and multi million pound contract payouts BEFORE even winning a single race. On the other hand we have Ron, who has fallen out with pretty much every single ex driver he did not feel 'bled' for the team, to different degrees. Ron is not a sentimentalist. Even the one driver he is on record as saying he had paternal instincts and special interest in, was alienated for a short period when he too left the team.

And now we have Button, a driver not picked by Ron when he had several chances, yet suddenly employed at the team by a rogue regime that Ron has completely vapourised and excommunicated. Apart from his top tier wage Mclaren were still committed to pay out, and apart from Ron publicly berating his performances and comparing him unfavourably to a rookie, Jenson appears surprised that he doesnt seem to figure in the plans for 2015.

There is a high chance we could see Jenson turn on the team, and ofcourse we know Ron thrives on conflict, so there is a high chance of some real old school drama in the next few weeks.

This thread will be the place to turn to for the entertainment. help yourselves to the free popcorn although you will have to bring your own beer

For any newcomers to previous episodes of Rons real life version of Tooned - here is the Wiki short precis of the Ron era, note the names that make it in - those names are Mclaren, so dont expect to see Coulthard or Button, expect to see those commonly referred to as Rons drivers

In 1981 McLaren merged with Ron Dennis' Project Four Racing; Dennis took over as team principal and shortly after organised a buyout of the original McLaren shareholders to take full control of the team. This began the team's most successful era: with Porsche and Honda engines, Niki Lauda, Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna took between them seven drivers' championships and McLaren six constructors' championships. The combination of Prost and Senna was particularly dominant—together they won all but one race in 1988—but later their rivalry soured and Prost left for Ferrari. Fellow English team Williams offered the most consistent challenge during this period, the two winning every constructors' title between 1984 and 1994. However, by the mid-1990s Honda had withdrawn from Formula One, Senna had moved to Williams and the team went three seasons without a win. With Mercedes-Benz engines, West sponsorship and former Williams designer Adrian Newey, further championships came in 1998 and 1999 with driver Mika Häkkinen and during the 2000s the team were consistent front-runners, driver Lewis Hamilton taking their latest title in 2008. In 2009 Dennis retired as team principal of McLaren handing the former role to longtime McLaren employee Martin Whitmarsh. At the end of 2013, after the team's worst season since 2004, Martin Whitmarsh was ousted. In October 2014, Ron Dennis announced his sporting director for McLaren Racing, Sam Michael, would be leaving the UK to emigrate to his birthplace, Australia with his family, and therefore quitting his role at McLaren Racing. In 2013, McLaren announced they would be using Honda engines from 2015 onwards, replacing Mercedes-Benz.

[Ferrari man 009]

I honestly think Button's exit from McLaren will be amicable, its a different situation from before. Remember Williams didnt want him for 5 years when the car was good and as soon as it was rubbish they suddenly wanted him. Why? Because no one else decent wanted the drive. Had he gone to Williams in 2005 he would not have been world champion.

As for Ron Dennis - Is Senna the only top driver he never fell out with? Oh and Hakkinen (who gave up when Schumacher started thrashing him)?

[CookinFlat6]

Williams had commitments to drivers, yet gave Jenson a year to prove himself, and even when he obviously didnt, parked him on loan until Frank was in a position to build the team around an English star ready to take on the MS'. Lets not forget that Jenson had his chance but didnt use it, and even at Benneton was replaced by Alonso, and Frank didnt dump him completely

How did Mika give up when MS thrashed him??? He quit after winning 2 years in a row, maybe I missed the thrashing he received, I do remeber MS saying Mika was the ONLY driver he was wary of

[CookinFlat6]

So Lewis steps in to give Jenson some dignitification and possibly a small swipe at Ron to remind him he hasnt completely forgotten his shenanigans with the Spa wing gambit that lead to twittergate

Lewis Hamilton, right, has defended his former team-mate Jenson Button, saying he is 'better than most drivers'.
Lewis Hamilton has come to the defence of his old team-mate Jenson Button and told McLaren that they need a new car not a new driver.

Responding to recent and mounting speculation that Button will lose his seat to Fernando Alonso next year, Hamilton said: “Jenson is better than most drivers here. He’s a great driver. So it doesn’t correlate. If I had a team I would want him in it. He’s a great asset for any team. It’s not that McLaren need a better driver. There are not many out there. They need a better car.”

McLaren and their new engine supplier, Honda, are desperate to land Alonso, who is still probably the best all-round driver in Formula One, though they have not managed to sign him yet.

Button’s manager, Richard Goddard, said on Thursday: “I spoke to Ron [Dennis, the McLaren principal] this morning and he hasn’t confirmed that Fernando has signed. And he says he still hasn’t decided about who will fill the other seat. He’s been completely open with me.”

But assuming McLaren do sign Alonso, Button would be likely to lose out to his younger team-mate Kevin Magnussen. Money, as ever, is a factor. Button earns an estimated £10m whereas Magnussen is thought to be on £500,000.

Button refused to confirm that the race in Abu Dhabi on 23 November would be his last. But there was still a suggestion of the valedictory in his body language and in what he said when he spoke outside the McLaren motorhome on Thursday.

“It’s a strange situation,” he said. “McLaren need to make a decision. This is a massive part of my life, Formula One and motor racing has been. And it’s not going to stop. It will continue.

“I just don’t know where that’s going to be right now. I never feel like I’m being pushed out of the sport because I’m definitely going to be in it in some shape or form, and it’s going to be a massive challenge, and very exciting.”

Button, 34, says his likely departure is not age-related. “Ron told me I could do it for ever, never let age be a factor. That’s what he told me last year. Age is not a factor in this sport. The cars are getting easier to drive, physically.

“Mentally and technically, probably not. But physically we could all drive with one hand these days. It’s not a challenge. The only track that is a challenge is Singapore. It’s got easier and easier over the years.”

Button is the most experienced driver in F1, with 264 grands prix. He won the world championship in 2009 and joined McLaren the following year.

He added: “The bit that hurts more than anything is not having a quick car. Two years of not winning is too long. Our last win was here two years ago, and that is a long time for a team like McLaren that has won world championships and is used to winning grands prix.”

[CookinFlat6]

Lewis border line rubbing it in now, even Alonso gets in on the act, playing to Rons precise and clinical exactness in choosing drivers

Hamilton believes McLaren's judgement is clouded by the fact they have been winless for the past two years.

The 29-year-old, who leads the World Championship, added: "He still has plenty of time, given his ability as a driver, to keep racing and winning. He just needs to be given a better car.

"It's not the team need a better driver - there are not many out there. They just need a better car."

Hamilton has found an ally in the 'Keep Button in F1' campaign in the man set to replace the veteran Briton - Alonso.

The double world champion said: "He's a very talented driver, we've seen that throughout his career, and also he's a very nice person.

"We need people like him in F1. I hope he will be here next year."

[racechick]

That's nice of Lewis. And I do think McLaren are being unfair to Jenson hanging him on like this. Presumably they would keep him over Rogro if Alonso didn't sign? Otherwise they should have told him by now. And surely there must come a point where they say to Slonso you sign of we go with someone else.

I remember in the early days of the Lewis Jenson partnership. The press were asking them both questions and they put Lewis on the spot. I can't remember what it was about now, but Lewis wasn't good at dealing with the press back then and was clearly stuck as to how to answer. And Jenson stepped in with a brilliant answer, rather as a big brother would do to a younger sibling. It was kind . Maybe there were more incidents like that and Lewis is repaying that kindness now.

[Roth]

I can't see anything but respect for Button in those two quotes.

[Ferrari man 009]

How did Mika give up when MS thrashed him??? He quit after winning 2 years in a row, maybe I missed the thrashing he received, I do remeber MS saying Mika was the ONLY driver he was wary of

He was thrashed in 2001, the year he announced his "sabbatical" that ended up as a retirement.

WDC:

1. Schumacher - 123
5. Hakkinen - 37

I know the Ferrari was the better car that year, but the McLaren wasn't that bad that double WDC Hakkinen only got just over half the points of his number 2 driver in the team. I'm sure he got demoralised by that terrible season and as a double WDC lost his hunger.

[Hammer278]

How did Mika give up when MS thrashed him??? He quit after winning 2 years in a row, maybe I missed the thrashing he received, I do remeber MS saying Mika was the ONLY driver he was wary of

He was thrashed in 2001, the year he announced his "sabbatical" that ended up as a retirement.

WDC:

1. Schumacher - 123
5. Hakkinen - 37

I know the Ferrari was the better car that year, but the McLaren wasn't that bad that double WDC Hakkinen only got just over half the points of his number 2 driver in the team. I'm sure he got demoralised by that terrible season and as a double WDC lost his hunger.

Ferrariman gets his facts completely upside down. Didn't expect this.

Pls check the number of wins Ferrari had that year vs ANYONE else....Hakkinen also got trounced by DC, the guy who was the clear No.2 in the team. Firstly, the car was crap and unreliable which was why DC's title challenge fizzled few races before the end, and Hakkinen was losing motivation. He had just got a kid that year or some months earlier and was thinking of calling it a day.

To say he ran away because of Michael is simply laughable. Mika was anytime faster than Michael, in terms of pace there's a reason why he was dubbed the Flying Finn. And that overtake in Spa around the BAR to retake the lead from Michael, sorry that is not a guy who is 'fearful' of the driver who needed No.1 status, special Bridgestone tyres and a watertight "Everyone in this team should love me" contract.

[CookinFlat6]

That's the problem with getting the numbers from Wiki without doing the harder work involved in working out the context

The difference between knowing something and understanding it

The bottom line is that MS said he feared Mika the most so that doesn't sound like MS talking about a guy running away. But maybe the wiki armed fans know better

[CookinFlat6]

How did Mika give up when MS thrashed him??? He quit after winning 2 years in a row, maybe I missed the thrashing he received, I do remeber MS saying Mika was the ONLY driver he was wary of

He was thrashed in 2001, the year he announced his "sabbatical" that ended up as a retirement.

WDC:

1. Schumacher - 123
5. Hakkinen - 37

I know the Ferrari was the better car that year, but the McLaren wasn't that bad that double WDC Hakkinen only got just over half the points of his number 2 driver in the team. I'm sure he got demoralised by that terrible season and as a double WDC lost his hunger.

In their 11 years as rivals the only driver who achieved more was Michael Schumacher, who said the opponent he most respected was Mika Hakkinen.

Mika Hakkinen is said to be the only person Michael Schumacher has feared, and when watching the Finn drive it’s easy to see why. Unbelievably brave, stunningly quick and with car control that was the envy of the grid, it’s a wonder Mika Hakkinen didn’t win more than his two world championships.

2001 and Hakkinen seemed to be losing the desire to be an F1 driver with team mate David Coulthard taking over the reigns as the teams best performer. However, later in the season Hakkinen upped his game and won at Silverstone and Indianapolis with two fantastic victories but it was only enough for fifth in the championship.
At the end of 2001 Hakkinen announced that he would be taking a sabbatical for 2002 which later turned in to full retirement.

http://www.f1seasonreview.com/formula-one-season-review/mika-hakkinen-profile/

[Jabberwocky]

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116713

I think this is pretty much what everyone thought is happening

[What's Burning?]

After all of the better scenarios the fans put forth, this kind of feels flat now.

[Jabberwocky]

I think the hold up has been Alonso/Ferrari having a pissing match on who is going to break the contract for next year.

If Ferrari breaks the contract they would have to pay Fernando. However if Fernando walks Ferrari will not have to pay him.

[What's Burning?]

I think the hold up has been Alonso/Ferrari having a pissing match on who is going to break the contract for next year.

If Ferrari breaks the contract they would have to pay Fernando. However if Fernando walks Ferrari will not have to pay him.

Hadn't considered that... it may very well be. I guess either way it's been decided albeit not announced. Doesn't hamper Alonso from signing with McLaren though and no financial skin off his back.

The only wrinkle to that theory is, if Ferrari pay him for the year, then they would still own him for that year, wouldn't they?