Europe 'finished' for F1

[LewEngBridewell]

So what i'm saying is if there were to be a fan who took over then they would treat F1 better and not like crap

Oh aye, and the calendar would be the first thing put to rights if I were to be in charge!!!

[andrew]

hopefully his protege will actually like F1

would be awesome to have someone who actually treats it like a sport

Why would MrE or his successor treat it like a sport? It's not been a sport for a very long time. Teams enter to make money and investors invest to make money. The cars dualing it out on the track are just an income generator for the powers that be and it will stay that way for ever more.

Yes but just because it makes money doesn't mean that it isn't a sport... if it wasn't a sport then it wouldn't be a business

It's a business for those who make money from it.

And it's a sport for those who watch it.

So what i'm saying is if there were to be a fan who took over then they would treat F1 better and not like crap

F1 has not been treated like crap. If anything MrE has done a fantastic job of making F1 into the truly global sport it is today. As for him not being a fan of F1, I call that utter bovine manure. The guy used to race competitively and ran Brabham during their hey-day - tells me all I need to know. Invariably, handling a sport/business/brand like F1, some decisions are going to annoy some people whilst the same decisions will please others and vice-versa. It may be a sport for those who watch it but it is a business for those who control it - i.e. they are selling us, the fans, a product. If Tesco started selling cornflakes that you didn't like (but others did), you wouldn't say that Tesco don't care about fans of breakfast would you?

[racechick]

hopefully his protege will actually like F1

would be awesome to have someone who actually treats it like a sport

Why would MrE or his successor treat it like a sport? It's not been a sport for a very long time. Teams enter to make money and investors invest to make money. The cars dualing it out on the track are just an income generator for the powers that be and it will stay that way for ever more.

Yes but just because it makes money doesn't mean that it isn't a sport... if it wasn't a sport then it wouldn't be a business

It's a business for those who make money from it.

And it's a sport for those who watch it.

So what i'm saying is if there were to be a fan who took over then they would treat F1 better and not like crap

F1 has not been treated like crap. If anything MrE has done a fantastic job of making F1 into the truly global sport it is today. As for him not being a fan of F1, I call that utter bovine manure. The guy used to race competitively and ran Brabham during their hey-day - tells me all I need to know. Invariably, handling a sport/business/brand like F1, some decisions are going to annoy some people whilst the same decisions will please others and vice-versa. It may be a sport for those who watch it but it is a business for those who control it - i.e. they are selling us, the fans, a product. If Tesco started selling cornflakes that you didn't like (but others did), you wouldn't say that Tesco don't care about fans of breakfast would you?

Oh come on!! he is driven by money. Earning large amounts of it by screwing whoever needs to be screwed.

[andrew]

hopefully his protege will actually like F1

would be awesome to have someone who actually treats it like a sport

Why would MrE or his successor treat it like a sport? It's not been a sport for a very long time. Teams enter to make money and investors invest to make money. The cars dualing it out on the track are just an income generator for the powers that be and it will stay that way for ever more.

Yes but just because it makes money doesn't mean that it isn't a sport... if it wasn't a sport then it wouldn't be a business

It's a business for those who make money from it.

And it's a sport for those who watch it.

So what i'm saying is if there were to be a fan who took over then they would treat F1 better and not like crap

F1 has not been treated like crap. If anything MrE has done a fantastic job of making F1 into the truly global sport it is today. As for him not being a fan of F1, I call that utter bovine manure. The guy used to race competitively and ran Brabham during their hey-day - tells me all I need to know. Invariably, handling a sport/business/brand like F1, some decisions are going to annoy some people whilst the same decisions will please others and vice-versa. It may be a sport for those who watch it but it is a business for those who control it - i.e. they are selling us, the fans, a product. If Tesco started selling cornflakes that you didn't like (but others did), you wouldn't say that Tesco don't care about fans of breakfast would you?

Oh come on!! he is driven by money. Earning large amounts of it by screwing whoever needs to be screwed.

Of course he's driven by money! We are all driven my money - it's just a question of scale. If he wasn't driven by money he wouldn't be much of a businessman would he?

You look at his business dealing in a very negative way but I would not call it "screwing whoever needs to be screwed". If various countries want to give him large sums of cash for an F1 race then that is the country's fault. Controlling F1 is like having a license to print money. Anyone who doesn't take up that sort of opportunity is obviously an idiot! Let's face it, if you buy something in one shop that costs £50 but the shop next door is selling it for £40 whose fault is it if you overpay? Yours because you didn't have the good sense to shop around or (in the case of contracts with MrE) negotiate properly without rolling over and exposing their belly at the first opportunity.

[racechick]

You can be a good successful businessman without being corrupt and abusing the very thing that feeds you.

[myownalias]

You can be a good successful businessman without being corrupt and abusing the very thing that feeds you.

But to be mega successful, you need to step on a few toes to get there... most mega successful businesses are corrupt in one way or another... sad but true!

Bottom line is this; CVC paid a lot of money to purchase F1 from Bernie Ecclestone, now Bernie is working his bottom off to recoup that money for CVC as soon as possible to make F1 profitable for them, of course Bernie takes a generous cut for the work he puts in, I have no doubt he works hard to make F1 a mega $$$ business but sadly, what's good for the sport is secondary!

As the old saying goes, power corrupts, absolute power, corrupts absolutely...

[Matt_1222]

You look at his business dealing in a very negative way but I would not call it "screwing whoever needs to be screwed". If various countries want to give him large sums of cash for an F1 race then that is the country's fault. Controlling F1 is like having a license to print money. Anyone who doesn't take up that sort of opportunity is obviously an idiot! Let's face it, if you buy something in one shop that costs £50 but the shop next door is selling it for £40 whose fault is it if you overpay? Yours because you didn't have the good sense to shop around or (in the case of contracts with MrE) negotiate properly without rolling over and exposing their belly at the first opportunity.

That's a really poor analogy... but to make it more relevant it's more like; If you buy a really nice thick well made jumper for £50 but the shop next door is selling a poorly made jumper that is ugly for £40 you could have an extra £10 but you'd have a crap jumper which (in the MrE's case) would fall apart exposing his wrinkled sagging tits

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Bernie Ecclestone is a shining example why G-d decided no one should get to life forever.

[andrew]

You can be a good successful businessman without being corrupt and abusing the very thing that feeds you.

MrE is corrupt how? Like any other businessman he drives a hard deal. F1 is a cash cow for CVC and anyone would be stupid not to make hay whilst the sun is permanently shinning. I don't see how he has abused F1, he's just taking money from people that are stupid enough to pay his fees. Seems fair to me.

That's a really poor analogy... but to make it more relevant it's more like; If you buy a really nice thick well made jumper for £50 but the shop next door is selling a poorly made jumper that is ugly for £40 you could have an extra £10 but you'd have a crap jumper which (in the MrE's case) would fall apart exposing his wrinkled sagging tits

My analogy is pretty good actually. My point is, if someone is too stupid and/or lazy to properly negotiate MrE's fees then that is their problem. If I'm selling my TV for £50 (but think £40 is still fair), it's not my problem if someone is too stupid to haggle so I'll take the higher amount offered. Same with MrE seeling races to various countries - they are prepared to pay top end money for what is not always a top end product so they deserve to be ripped off in my view.

[racechick]

He's corrupt because he pays bribes to not tell people how much tax he should pay, LOADS of tax money. And he tries to get round laws. And his concern for F1 is secondary. the only reason he has to work so hard to get F1 profitable is because of the obscene amount he charged for it.

Not all top business men are corrupt. Bill Gates and Richard Branson come immediately to mind.

[andrew]

Bribes? Any proof (I mean hard proven facts and not conjecture) or is this like the Whitmarsh thing? Find an F1 figure you don't like and build a conspiracy around them.

You seem to not understand what MrE is there for. He is a promoter of sorts and one of his perks is that he can charge whatever he likes. Conversly, if countries are willing to pay him huge amounts then he would be a fool and not much of a businessman to offer them a price lower than what they are willing to throw at him.

Bill Gates and Richard Branson not corrupt? Ok maybe corrupt is not the right word to be used here but you don't make billions without screwing a few people over. You don't get anywhere by being nice - fact of life that is.

[myownalias]

When people ask me how much people would pay for product A on eBay, I tell them it's worth what people are willing to pay for it, and like Andrew says that's exactly what Ecclestone is doing.

Would you turn down a pay rise because you didn't feel that you had earned it? I know that I wouldn't, more money for me is good, no question in my mind about that!

I don't agree with what Bernie is doing, moving F1 away from it's European homeland and I don't think it's best for F1 but from a pure business point of view, it makes perfect sense!

[racechick]

Bribes? Any proof (I mean hard proven facts and not conjecture) or is this like the Whitmarsh thing? Find an F1 figure you don't like and build a conspiracy around them.

Yes I have proof. It comes out of Bernie's mouth, he admitted it.Here you go, read it yourself.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5744fe76-0ade ... zG3jYxLrlW

As I said to Bud earlier, why bring in Whitmarsh? You feel Im definately wrong on that score so you tar every arguement I make with that brush? Poor show. Its two different things. My views on Whitmarsh have nothing to do with my views on Ecclestone.

[andrew]

Useless link - doesn't work. I'll mention Whitmarsh whenever I like. You bash Massa at every given opportunity. Swings and roundabouts.

[killem2]

You can be a good successful businessman without being corrupt and abusing the very thing that feeds you.

MrE is corrupt how? Like any other businessman he drives a hard deal. F1 is a cash cow for CVC and anyone would be stupid not to make hay whilst the sun is permanently shinning. I don't see how he has abused F1, he's just taking money from people that are stupid enough to pay his fees. Seems fair to me.

He's got the benefit of being the only game in town. Not do many competitors when it comes to tv rights for f1.