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#422061
Nothing irks me more than that Fox news slogan, fair and balanced.


nice change of subject, you were asked a question - 'why would the oil companies be against it?'

'why are the oil companies championing bio fuels?'

You spend time arguing for biofuels but start joking when asked questions, do you actually have any pride?
Last edited by CookinFlat6 on 21 Oct 14, 17:06, edited 1 time in total.
#422063
Heres some more 'sponsored' experiments

The amazing success of the Tesla model S proves that electric cars may have a chance of replacing liquid fueled vehicles in the long run. Skeptics point out that most of our electric power today comes from coal, which is dirty and inefficient. We must change to clean, renewable energy sources but is that really practical? The Tesla has proven that we can use photovoltaic solar power to recharge pure electric cars. Let’s calculate how much land is needed to renewably fuel a car using several possible electrical and biofuel approaches.


the conclusion after this comparative analysis of biofuels vs electric?

To summarize, here are the results, arranged in order of land use efficiency, with an additional column showing the acres needed to support one car based on 13,476 average miles driven per year according to the FHA:

Rooftop reflector PV electric 2,692,008 miles/year/acre 1/200 acres/car

Concentrated PV solar electric 1,266,000 1/94

PV panels solar electric 729,000 1/54

Algenol, Joule algae ethanol 234,000 1/17

Wind power electric 165,000 1/12

Palm oil diesel fuel 21,500 1/2

Sugar cane ethanol 15,600 .86

Corn ethanol fuel 10,200 1.32

Soy diesel fuel 2,679 5

Though solar electric is the clear winner based on land use, biofuels are still in the race, particularly if commercial scale designer algae becomes a reality. Biofuels have a gigantic advantage in remote areas because no power lines are needed. The liquid fuel can simply be picked up and delivered by trucks and ships. High-capacity power lines are very expensive to build and are seldom found in remote, tropical areas where land is cheap.
The existing sources of biofuels from soy and corn are an embarrassing result of political influence and heavy subsidies. We must stop letting politicians make technical choices!


http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/blog/post/2013/08/fueled-vs-electric-cars-the-great-race-begins-10

so there you have it the facts and stats the show electric and solar is miles ahead - however biofuels could figure in the race IF algae becomes a reality :rofl::rofl::rofl:

But lets allow some to force idiotic and halfbaked nonsense upon us, and stop ourselves pointing out the truth for fear of rocking the boat, bickering or receiving moderation pms explaining that arguing with a certain mod falls within the rule of winding others up and so not to continue on the open forum as it would earn a second warning.
Now if these liars and cheats were actually paid by the oil companies or stood to personally gain at least we could write it off as the corruption endemic in society today, but when this idoicy is ONLY a mental spanking of a pet monkey - why its too ridiculous to even joke about
#422076
Nothing irks me more than that Fox news slogan, fair and balanced.


nice change of subject, you were asked a question - 'why would the oil companies be against it?'

'why are the oil companies championing bio fuels?'

You spend time arguing for biofuels but start joking when asked questions, do you actually have any pride?


So you think I'm responsible for answering for oil companies? :hehe:
#422077
Heres some more 'sponsored' experiments

The amazing success of the Tesla model S proves that electric cars may have a chance of replacing liquid fueled vehicles in the long run. Skeptics point out that most of our electric power today comes from coal, which is dirty and inefficient. We must change to clean, renewable energy sources but is that really practical? The Tesla has proven that we can use photovoltaic solar power to recharge pure electric cars. Let’s calculate how much land is needed to renewably fuel a car using several possible electrical and biofuel approaches.


the conclusion after this comparative analysis of biofuels vs electric?

To summarize, here are the results, arranged in order of land use efficiency, with an additional column showing the acres needed to support one car based on 13,476 average miles driven per year according to the FHA:

Rooftop reflector PV electric 2,692,008 miles/year/acre 1/200 acres/car

Concentrated PV solar electric 1,266,000 1/94

PV panels solar electric 729,000 1/54

Algenol, Joule algae ethanol 234,000 1/17

Wind power electric 165,000 1/12

Palm oil diesel fuel 21,500 1/2

Sugar cane ethanol 15,600 .86

Corn ethanol fuel 10,200 1.32

Soy diesel fuel 2,679 5

Though solar electric is the clear winner based on land use, biofuels are still in the race, particularly if commercial scale designer algae becomes a reality. Biofuels have a gigantic advantage in remote areas because no power lines are needed. The liquid fuel can simply be picked up and delivered by trucks and ships. High-capacity power lines are very expensive to build and are seldom found in remote, tropical areas where land is cheap.
The existing sources of biofuels from soy and corn are an embarrassing result of political influence and heavy subsidies. We must stop letting politicians make technical choices!


http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/blog/post/2013/08/fueled-vs-electric-cars-the-great-race-begins-10

so there you have it the facts and stats the show electric and solar is miles ahead - however biofuels could figure in the race IF algae becomes a reality :rofl::rofl::rofl:

But lets allow some to force idiotic and halfbaked nonsense upon us, and stop ourselves pointing out the truth for fear of rocking the boat, bickering or receiving moderation pms explaining that arguing with a certain mod falls within the rule of winding others up and so not to continue on the open forum as it would earn a second warning.
Now if these liars and cheats were actually paid by the oil companies or stood to personally gain at least we could write it off as the corruption endemic in society today, but when this idoicy is ONLY a mental spanking of a pet monkey - why its too ridiculous to even joke about


You are completely right. We will all be driving clean safe nuclear boosted electric cars in a few years. F1 will be dust. And Formula E will be the pinnacle of motor sport. :)
#422079
Nothing irks me more than that Fox news slogan, fair and balanced.


nice change of subject, you were asked a question - 'why would the oil companies be against it?'

'why are the oil companies championing bio fuels?'

You spend time arguing for biofuels but start joking when asked questions, do you actually have any pride?


So you think I'm responsible for answering for oil companies? :hehe:

No you are responsible for answering to the stuff you post when asked, instead of running off or trying to pretend its all a joke and you are funny

This was your original reason for why the F1 hybrid regs are a scam and why ICEs are not a problem and should stay like Luca sais
Fuel for ICE's is a renewable resource which can be created anywhere by recycling refuse.

this was pointed out as crap - so you told us algae made this possible, and after months you gave us this
The amount of land needed to replace all the diesel fuel used in the US today with an algae derivative would be half of one percent of the current farm land used

Algae can grow on marginal/dessert type lands with saline groundwater.

I responded this time cause you asked with a please :clap:


lets try again. You keep saying hybrids - electric path is a scam and that bio fuels are the better option. You keep mentioning that sales of bio fuels are going up and electric cars sales are falling - you have said hybrid electrics have nothing to do with saving the environment, you keep saying bio fuels are much better because they are plentiful and unlimited source for ICE - but when told about the huge land mass they require - you then said algae doesnt need to take farmland - then when challenged to find evidence algae could be produced feasibly - you produced an out of date quote from a guy raising money to experiment who has been fired from his post for 3 years

and then you rubbish claims solar energy is the ultimate solution, and then just to annoy those with real integrity you started laughing about nuclear offering a temp solution to fossil fuel stations or about nuclear cars

maybe you are counting on others becoming uncomfortable with someone holding yu to account for what are essentially lies, backed up by inaccurate facts and twisted every post and changing your words.

If you gonna have opinions great, but dont present lies as facts and then refuse to clarify, like the time you hid in the private lounge while we patiently waitied for you to crack and 'answer' questions which WB was kind enough to cut and paste into the public forum

Once and for all answer the above questions,or admit you were misinformed or stop the snide injection of lies about electric vs biofuels which is misleading the decent folk on here :thumbup:
#422346
Are we in the midst of the most radical innovation the energy sector has seen since the invention of the light bulb?

Electric carmaker Tesla recently chose Reno, Nevada, as the site of their $5 billion battery gigafactory, in partnership with Panasonic. Tesla’s batteries are a hallmark of the company’s innovation in the automotive sector, evidenced by the 200-300 mile range of the Model S, which is far larger than any competitor.

But these batteries are more than just more efficient. They are also a key part of the (r)evolution underway in the energy sector in how power is created, transmitted, used, and stored. And much like the disruptions brought about by the Internet, this shift in power production has profound implications for business as usual. So what is changing, and what are the innovations we can expect when it comes to energy?
The distributed generation

In the past, power was generated in huge dirty plants, often in remote locations, by burning coal or other fossil fuels and then transmitting the electricity to users in a place far away from where it was created.

As property owners in the US have increasingly installed solar panels, many can now provide their own energy and be nearly independent from the grid. Except for the fact that renewable energy like solar is passive and electricity has to be generated at time of use. That’s where Tesla’s batteries and business model come in.
Systems thinking

Many say that the holy grail of renewable energy is storage given that the sun doesn’t always shine and the wind doesn’t always blow. If we are going to stay below our carbon budget, set to expire by 2050, someone has to figure that out. Tesla’s Elon Musk might just be the one to do it.

Together with Musk’s other companies, SpaceX and SolarCity, he is innovating for an uncertain and distributed future. With SolarCity, America’s largest solar power provider, he’s accelerating the energy revolution by making the cost of electricity predictable and precluding the need for a large upfront investment to go solar.

These companies—and potentially competitors given Musk’s savvy patent-sharing policy—all benefit from Tesla’s advances in battery technology and the growing market efficiencies of solar. Musk’s companies are basically part of a distributed industrial ecosystem that helps solve the challenge and opportunity of climate change. But there’s innovation in energy far beyond the battery, too.
An Internet of energy?

Tesla and its sister companies offer one story of how to start scaling a sustainable energy system. But they are but one chapter in the tale, with the overarching theme being the shift from a centralized production system to a distributed network where people can be simultaneously producers and consumers, customers and sellers.

Sound familiar? Like what happened when the world’s information and retail exchange was brought together online via the Internet, major disruptions to business as usual are in store for traditional energy services.

In fact, people are already starting to talk about “the energy internet” and what it means when the world’s locally-generated electricity is fed into a shared grid and managed digitally in a networked fashion. Ironic as it seems, electricity itself may offer the last business frontier for transforming an analog past into a digital future.

Check out some of the exciting innovations in energy that demonstrate this point:
#422349
Electric cars but not as we know them! Some amazing things there. If car manufactures don't adapt they'll just become obsolete. You can see it's the future.
Reminds me of the Luddites. Luddites anyone? Is it a British thing or does everyone know about Luddites?
#422356
Luddites were the original useful idiots - in their case ignorantly opposing the introduction of machine tools thinking it would replace workers when they were really helping to protect plantation owners and exploiters of cheap or free labour in the form of slaves, workhouse children etc. The exploiters wanted to keep their advantage of cheap or free labour - that advantage disappeared once machines could produce cotton and other worker intensive occupations. The slave trade was abolished afterwards, notable except in the antebellum southern confederate states and led to the civil war between the North who had adopted modern machines and the South who wanted to cling to their free labout economic advantage. So the Luddites who thought them were supporting English textile workers were actually supporting slavery profits for a small group of cotton plantation owners

Dumbarses will always be dumbarses in every epoch

In political jargon, useful idiot is a term for people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they are not fully aware of, and who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause. Despite often being attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[1][2][3] in 1987, Grant Harris, senior reference librarian at the Library of Congress, declared that "We have not been able to identify this phrase among [Lenin's] published works."[4][5]

In the Russian language, the equivalent term "useful fools" (полезные дураки, tr. polezniye duraki) was in use at least in 1941.[6]

The term has been used in a similar sense as fellow travellers and other Communism or Soviet Union sympathizers in Western countries during the Cold War. The implication was that, although the people in question naïvely thought of themselves as standing for a benign socialist ideological cause, and as valued allies of the Soviet Union, they were actually held in contempt and were being cynically used by the Communist Party of Soviet Union for subversive activities in their native Western countries. The use of the term in political discourse has since been extended to other propagandists, especially those who are seen to unwittingly support a malignant cause which they naïvely believe to be a force for good.[7]

A New York Times article from 1948, on contemporary Italian politics, documented usage of the term in an article from the social-democratic Italian paper L'Umanita.[8] The French equivalent, "idiots utiles", was used in a newspaper article title in 1946.[9]

A similar term, useful innocents, appears in Austrian-American economist Ludwig von Mises's "Planned Chaos" (1947). Von Mises claims the term was used by communists for liberals that von Mises describes as "confused and misguided sympathizers".[10] The term useful innocents also appears in a Readers Digest article (1946) titled "Yugoslavia's Tragic Lesson to the World", an excerpt from a, at the time, forthcoming book (no title printed) authored by Bogdan Raditsa (Bogdan Radica), a "high ranking official of the Yugoslav Government". Raditsa says: "In the Serbo-Croat language the communists have a phrase for true democrats who consent to collaborate with them for 'democracy.' It is Korisne Budale, or Useful Innocents."[11] Although Raditsa translates the phrase as "Useful Innocents", the word budala (plural: budale) actually translates as "fool" and synonyms thereof.

A 2010 BBC radio documentary titled Useful Idiots listed among "useful idiots" of Joseph Stalin several prominent British writers including H. G. Wells and Doris Lessing, the Irish writer George Bernard Shaw, the American journalist Walter Duranty, and the singer Paul Robeson.[12]
Last edited by CookinFlat6 on 25 Oct 14, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.
#422423
Luddites were the original useful idiots ..... they were really helping to protect plantation owners and exploiters of cheap or free labour in the form of workhouse children etc. The exploiters wanted to keep their advantage of cheap or free labour

Do you mean people being exploited like these?
Image
Image
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#422425
Well since I used the term Luddite, no, that's not what I meant. I meant people averse to change and progress.

The Luddites were 19th-century English textile artisans who protested against newly developed labour-replacing machinery from 1811 to 1817.
#422446
Luddites were the original useful idiots ..... they were really helping to protect plantation owners and exploiters of cheap or free labour in the form of workhouse children etc. The exploiters wanted to keep their advantage of cheap or free labour

Do you mean people being exploited like these?


Who do you think built 80% of all electronic devices in your house, made your clothes/shoes/apparels.....guys in suits? Grow up and get into reality. Cheap labour is everywhere, stick to the freaking point and answer the questions posed already.
#422466
Luddites were the original useful idiots ..... they were really helping to protect plantation owners and exploiters of cheap or free labour in the form of workhouse children etc. The exploiters wanted to keep their advantage of cheap or free labour

Do you mean people being exploited like these?
Image


Can you prove that they are been exploited??? - That guy has a lit cigarette in his mouth - doent seem to complaining much about conditions, I bet those are not the clothes he wears to the local disco after work.

Anyways, whats that got to do with Luddites or useful (in one case useless) idiots ???
#422467
Very interesting posts. No need for me to comment beyond exactly what they state.

For me, I'm appalled at the treatment of those people so viciously exploited in the mining of rare earths and the wretched conditions they are forced to bring their families up in.

Interesting read >>here<< providing more information for those who care.

A short walk from the 43-year-old former farmer's dilapidated brick home in Xinguang Number One Village, is the world's largest rare earths mine tailings pond – an endless expanse of viscous grey sludge built in the 1950s under Mao Zedong. The pond, owned by the Inner Mongolia Baotou Steel Rare-Earth Hi-Tech Company, or Baotou Steel, lacks a proper lining and for the past 20 years its toxic contents have been seeping into groundwater, according to villagers and state media reports. It is trickling towards the nearby Yellow River, a major drinking water source for much of northern China, at a rate of 20 to 30 metres a year


In the 1990s, when China's rare earths production kicked into full gear, his sheep died and his cabbage crops withered. Most of his neighbours have moved away. Seven have died of cancer. His teeth have grown yellow and crooked; they jut out at strange angles from blackened gums


A villager near its eastern mine told the newspaper that while visiting a nearby sheep market the year prior, he found that many of the animals had two rows of teeth, some so long that they couldn't close their mouths.
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